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The silent majority in software

vadimkravcenko.com

41–50 of 371 posts

Re: The silent majority in software

#41

Can we flag/correct/remove the article? I am reading this as someone a little too young and too European to yet know much about Nixon, but would prefer if HN could avoid potentially making an idiot out of myself, when talking about recent history.

Looks like the author’s corrected it now

Re: The silent majority in software

#42
post #15

I may belong to that silent majority. I have learnt a lot from the discussions here in HN and other sites, but I rarely participate on them. This post made me think about being a little more active because, sincerely, most of the times it is just laziness what prevents me from commenting anything. In fact, this is my first comment here in HN. Little by little.

I will say that in my own experience, if you go against the zeitgeist on HN you can often get by as long as you're sensitive/respectful and intelligent on the issue. There are people who downvote things they disagree with, but I think most people on here downvote people who sound unconstructive or argumentative.

And at the end of the day, if you're respectful etc, who cares about being downvoted or having people argue back to you? Just take it on the chin.

Re: The silent majority in software

#43
post #6

> Usually, the comments on HN/Reddit are polarised by a single group of people who have the same opinion, Can't speak for Reddit, but that's not at all the case here. For example, I often speak of my hatred of microservices here. I'll get some upvotes and agreement, some people telling me it's a dumb opinion, and some people telling me we're doing it wrong and explain their right way. Believe it or not, I learn a lot…

> Usually, the comments on HN/Reddit are polarised by a single group of people who have the same opinion,

> polarize: divide or cause to divide into two sharply contrasting groups or sets of opinions or beliefs. > "the cultural sphere has polarized into two competing ideological positions"

Hmm...

Re: The silent majority in software

#44

>And that’s fine, we’re all amateurs, and sometimes we can be wrong. I'm not an amateur. Or if I am than everyone is too since I have written software for project that would kill tens of thousands if it fails. Other than that the vocal minority was always my opinion on Rust. A small core of true believers who decided that convincing people they should change the world is worth more than actually doing any work in Rus…

Such a saying is what the incompetent obsessively repeat to themselves. They can't stand by the thought of people who don't need an Internet connection to program, who don't copy and paste from the fools over at StackOverflow, and the many other things they do which their betters don't. The fools over at Reddit call some things "adulting", because the idea of growing out of childhood is so foreign to them that they'd…

> we’re all amateurs, and sometimes we can be wrong.

> Such a saying is what the incompetent obsessively repeat to themselves.

I'll take humble over arrogant.

Re: The silent majority in software

#45
post #29
post #8

> The “silent majority” was used by President Richard Nixon during his presidency and his campaign against the Vietnam war. He spoke to the people who were not actively voicing their opinions and who were overshadowed by the vocal few who were supporting the war. This is a shocking misunderstanding of history. The “silent majority” Nixon spoke of were folks opposed to anti-war protests . Nixon intentionally prolonged…

Fixed it. Thank you :) Just took the quote directly from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_majority#:~:text=The%20...

Just to save time for other people who might be wondering how Wikipedia could get this wrong, bndr seems to have forgotten to read the last part of the admittedly long sentence in Wikipedia. It lists several vocal groups.

Re: The silent majority in software

#46
I’d argue people greatly underestimate confinement by the Status Quo, or producing what stakeholders asked for... rather than what they needed. As an engineer one may have opinions about how things should be done, but in reality it is often not really your call if you are just an employee.

Put another way, if you are not listening to the person who signs the checks, than your career will be rather short.

"Nor would a wise man, seeing that he was in a hole, go to work and blindly dig it deeper..." (The Washington Post October 25, 1911)

Re: The silent majority in software

#47
with all the banning, down-voting and cancel culture in general - it's just not worth it. why should I even care if the receiving part isn't listening, got different agenda (yet another celebrity cult buildup || greed)? heck... the youth doesn't even know how to swear anymore. n word this, r word that - as if Lord Voldemort's gonna pop in. internet has created an illusion that teachers have become obsolete, even at work I refuse to criticize co-workers as it's not my job to evaluate them.

Re: The silent majority in software

#48
I think what the author says is true. The mass of digital workers use older, established and unfashionable technology, and are neither vocal nor particularly curious about the work.

But there's an implication of moral purity at play. Are those who just quietly "mind their own business" a good, wholesome but misrepresented group?

On the contrary, I think that in matters with far reaching consequences, which computing is, silent majorities are the problem. Unreflectively going along with the programme becomes a kind of passive negligence which should not be lionised in a folksy way.

Re: The silent majority in software

#49

Try criticizing capitalism or "free markets" sometime.

As someone far left, I criticize capitalism routinely here, and it usually gets upvoted. As for free markets, it's hard to criticize something that is largely absent in our modern economy: capitalism is actively hostile to free markets and is basically a positive feedback loop for market monopolization. But I've seen people criticize free markets (as they understand them) and get upvoted as well, many times.

Re: The silent majority in software

#50
post #25

There are thousands of Java developers in the US who make $80,000 a year and live a fantastic life. No leetcode, no Bay Area, no FAANG. Just people writing the code responsible for our banking, travel, supermarkets and many other systems which underpin our society.

I know many developers (over 35 years old) in Europe doing the same (they earn above the average european salary, so like 140K EUR/year or so): Java, no HN, no Linkedin, no FAANG, no leetcode, no switching jobs every 2 years. They have families, they are normal people. If you ask them about monads, they would have no idea (like me) what are you talking about. That's the path I'm heading to (hopefully).
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