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Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

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Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#61

Post by droithomme »

thom wrote: post #55
droithomme wrote: post #48

People who use Facebook are silly people. No this is not a flame, it's AOL all over again. The walled garden, except the garden is a dystopian big brother state. I don't mind people being in the dystopia of their own choosing at all. I enjoy going for walks outside the cyberdome. It's quiet and peaceful out here and people are not monitoring and trying to manipulate and control me. Those who enjoy being a cog in a ma…

You know, the dystopia in which I'm forced to share pictures of my newborn son with my family, and talk to friends on the other side of the country that I haven't seen for months, is better than pretty much any other dystopia I can imagine.

I'm definitely not criticizing anyone who wants to be in the Matrix, I believe in freedom and free will. I read the referenced article and it was yet another one by someone in the Matrix complaining about the Matrix. It seems such a strange complaint since people are not only able to leave at any time but there are many other cyberworlds they could inhabit alternatively, and many they can even create themselves to their own specifications and desires. There is no need to be unhappy with the offerings of a giant multinational conglomerate run by a cynical sociopath with publicly stated contempt for his customers in an age of freedom and choice.

I'd rather save criticism of this fabulously wealthy conglomerate to be directed at the disturbing ways they are trying to claim ownership of things outside their Matrix, such as that of my personal identity, and to track my comings and goings outside their Matrix without my consent. Those parts are disturbing and dangerous, especially when coupled with their deep interest in mixing it up in politics and influencing laws to create a captive universal audience.

Matrix is fine, but I want it to stay bottled up and optional.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#62

Post by chc »

anildash wrote: post #37
HalSF wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s hardly calm and cogent — in fact it’s sort of a wild accusation — to describe a post as “flinging wild accusations” when it does nothing of the sort. Yes, Anil’s post is sharply argued and it’s definitely a polemical pushback against Facebook’s practice, but it’s a valuable part of the debate (especially with the added value of the comments below it), not a flame.

Appreciate the support, HalSF -- I try very hard to be intellectually honest even when making an obviously strongly-felt point.

Do you really think so? It's intellectually honest to suggest that Stop Badware — a system intended to cordon off viruses, spyware and surreptitiously installed junkware — should be used to punish a site because its threat detection algorithms are overly cautious? That doesn't strike you as even a little bit spiteful?

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#63

Post by thom »

droithomme wrote: post #61
thom wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, the dystopia in which I'm forced to share pictures of my newborn son with my family, and talk to friends on the other side of the country that I haven't seen for months, is better than pretty much any other dystopia I can imagine.

I'm definitely not criticizing anyone who wants to be in the Matrix, I believe in freedom and free will. I read the referenced article and it was yet another one by someone in the Matrix complaining about the Matrix. It seems such a strange complaint since people are not only able to leave at any time but there are many other cyberworlds they could inhabit alternatively, and many they can even create themselves to th…

Okay, so long as we're not being incredibly creepy and paranoid then.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#64

Post by Karunamon »

billybob wrote: post #33
iamandrus wrote: post #24

The only way to stop Facebook is to protest and boycott it. It worked in 2006 and 2007 (News Feed and Beacon, but Beacon might have been 2008) and it'll work again.

I agree with your first sentence. Whether it worked in the past is arguable, since they continue to do slimy things. But one thing is sure: they can't abuse your data if you don't give it to them.

.. and that it's not "abuse" if you know what they're doing with it and expect it.

Don't share anything on Facebook that you wouldn't want to see on the news the next morning. Simple and easy.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#65

Post by VladRussian »

thom wrote: post #55
droithomme wrote: post #48

People who use Facebook are silly people. No this is not a flame, it's AOL all over again. The walled garden, except the garden is a dystopian big brother state. I don't mind people being in the dystopia of their own choosing at all. I enjoy going for walks outside the cyberdome. It's quiet and peaceful out here and people are not monitoring and trying to manipulate and control me. Those who enjoy being a cog in a ma…

You know, the dystopia in which I'm forced to share pictures of my newborn son with my family, and talk to friends on the other side of the country that I haven't seen for months, is better than pretty much any other dystopia I can imagine.

>the dystopia in which I'm forced to share pictures of my newborn son with my family, and talk to friends on the other side of the country that I haven't seen for months

the things impossible without Facebook :)

The main thing that Facebbok does isn't [technically] enabling some specific communications in some specific space, the main thing is that Facebook puts people into that space, bumps them one into another and thus forcing/making/nudging/tempting to perform act of communication that otherwise may not have happened. Facebook makes [helps to unleash] one a social beast.

Vs. the force in dystopias, in the Facebook case we have dopamine generating activities grounded in the Facebook environment. While they can be replaced by dopamine generating activities in other environments [ i enjoy mine here on HN for example ], why would a social dopamine addicted beast that gets it fix on-schedule bother?

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#66

Post by anildash »

chc wrote: post #62
anildash wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the support, HalSF -- I try very hard to be intellectually honest even when making an obviously strongly-felt point.

Do you really think so? It's intellectually honest to suggest that Stop Badware — a system intended to cordon off viruses, spyware and surreptitiously installed junkware — should be used to punish a site because its threat detection algorithms are overly cautious? That doesn't strike you as even a little bit spiteful?

Stop Badware regularly flags sites that issue spurious security warnings in an attempt to mislead users. Facebook certainly falls under that description.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#67

Post by jlujan »

anildash wrote: post #39
chimeracoder wrote: post #32

How ironic that this blog's own comment system relies on Facebook.

It's not ironic, it's deliberate. I want to make sure I'm making informed criticisms of Facebook based on actual usage of the service as both an individual user and as a publisher.

Been a reader of your blog for a while now, and enjoy your insight. I do feel that chimeracoder's criticism is valid, regardless of your argument of establishing objectivity through participation. As a reader, the inclusion of Facebook Connect and Comments really detracts from the credibility, err. sincerity, of your article.

"toolbar that helps you shop online more effectively but neglects to mention that it will send a list of everything you buy online to the company that provides the toolbar."

What about a website that injects its content on every website you visit, regardless of your willingness to participate as a user? Or tracks every visit regardless of your willingness to participate?

Exhibit A: http://mashable.com/2011/11/17/facebook-reveals-its-user-tra...

There is no terms of service or privacy statement on your site disclosing that you are effectively sharing my activity with Facebook. By the way, I opt-out through the disconnect and Ghostery Chrome extensions, so your site has no comment system... just a Comments heading.

"Facebook has moved from merely being a walled garden into openly attacking its users' ability and willingness to navigate the rest of the web."

As the website operator that uses Facebook Connect, you are signaling to Facebook that you are OK with their current strategy to exist on every page on the internet and dictate the way content should be shared. You cannot complain that they are getting rid of the ability to automatically share your blog content in facebook when they have given you the ability to incorporate all the same functionality directly on your page. It is a genius move on their part. They no longer have to worry about users visiting facebook less over time if they are on every other page the user might visit.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#68

Post by ricardobeat »

natrius wrote: post #18

Point 3 ("WEB SITES ARE DEEMED UNSAFE, EVEN IF FACEBOOK MONITORS THEM") has been addressed. Here are the other two. "YOU CANNOT BRING YOUR CONTENT IN TO FACEBOOK" False. Facebook's API allows all sorts of external content to enter Facebook. They're just shutting down their app that does that automatically. There are plenty of third party apps that already solve this problem. "PUBLISHERS WHOSE CONTENT IS CAPTIVE ARE P…

Thanks Dewey.

Re: Facebook is gaslighting the web. We can fix it.

#69

Post by ajross »

podperson wrote: post #58
cft wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>4. Detecting all badness via the domain name at "write-time" is not a sufficient solution to the malicious link problem. Doesn't Google has this problem too, that detecting badness at the "indexing time" is not a sufficient solution? The content of a site may change between their checks. No pop-ups are shown in between indexing times nevertheless. With your abuse reporting volume, you should be able to almost instan…

I can't believe I'm posting something that might be taken as defending Facebook but... If a site appears to contain malicious content at time X but not at time Y than I would PREFER to be notified that it is a dubious site until the site has earned back trust in some way. Continuing to warn users about a site that historically contained badness seems to me to be a FEATURE.

That's actually exactly Google's solution: they give you a set of reports and an indication of when the malware or malicious link was last detected on the site.

But I don't think that's the issue here. That facebook warning does not, as far as I know, get generated from a positive malware/spam/badness metric. It's just thrown up as a default action when someone links to an unblessed site on the web. That's what the poster doesn't like: it goes against the whole idea of hyperlinking.

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