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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#521

Post by fest »

jacquesm wrote: post #43
fest wrote: post #15

At the current electricity prices, break even point for household PV installations even in coldish climate (Latvia, Eastern Europe) is on the order of 3-4 years without subsidies. Granted, it does not solve the problem that the energy I'll spend in the fall/winter has to come from somewhere but financially it is at the very least closer to being balanced out. Also, this is in a country, where the net metering system…

Buying panels, inverters, heatpumps and booking installer times are significant bottle necks at the moment for further household PV installation.

At least here, the heatpump and installer availability seems to be the biggest bottlenecks.

I'm not looking forward to it, but I may end up having to install (ground source) heat pump myself (assuming it will be delivered this season at all- quote delivery date was June).

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#522

Post by Sakos »

badpun wrote: post #512
Sakos wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're currently importing far more gas than we did before the war. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=52758

This link is only about LNG, i.e. natural gas in its liquid form. I suspect that's why Germany is missing from the chart altogether. In any case, it does not show the whole picture.

What is missing? Germany doesn't have LNG terminals, so obviously they're not on there. LNG is regasified to export to Germany through European countries that do have LNG terminals. Much of the increased LNG import is going to Germany.

I'm not sure where you're expecting natural gas in gaseous state to come from. It's generally transported in LNG form unless there's a pipeline (like between Germany and Russia). There aren't a lot of those connecting Europe to gas producers outside Europe, which is one reason why we're in this mess.

LNG imports to Europe are up significantly compared to before the war. The link shows that. I feel like you don't really understand what's happening.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#523

Post by fest »

epolanski wrote: post #465
jacquesm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buying panels, inverters, heatpumps and booking installer times are significant bottle necks at the moment for further household PV installation.

Also: legislation and beaurocracy.

Not in Latvia- it's an online application, you get a decision (=does the grid have generation capacity in your location), and then submit an installation report signed by electrician.

Getting building permits for installations was waived this year (before that it varied by city).

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#524

Post by Reason077 »

01100011 wrote: post #389
Reason077 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

This response is correct. Be sure to forward it to the folks in the EU this winter when they're unable to charge their cars or heat their homes. We should be thinking long term, but we can't forget about the present and the path to the glorious future. I think in hindsight we'll soon admit that we botched the transition to a greener world and caused needless suffering by putting ideologies before engineering.

You’ve got it backwards. The current energy problems in Europe are due to a reduction in the supply of imported natural gas, nothing to do with renewables.

By reducing Europe’s dependence on imported fossil fuels, renewables are part of the solution to energy security.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#525

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #488
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not entirely true. The prices of the underlying different electricity sources is different but they can’t be traded separately. As a result the market is very dysfunctional.

> As a result the market is very dysfunctional. You're stating that without evidence, but the kind of auctions that the electricity market requires are similar to opening auctions for stocks. Would you claim they're very dysfunctional?

The kind of trades that are currently happening in Europe for electricity are removed from the reality on the ground. You can look through this Twitter thread for some good commentary on what is happening: https://twitter.com/yakutsavas/status/1563529006997450752?s=...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#526

Post by pydry »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #485
pydry wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Announce a $1 trillion nuclear build-out plan Ready in 10-20 years.

Yep, too little too late. Nuclear is going to miss this party. By the time any of this would feasibly be ready this crisis will be ancient history. The smart move is to completely ignore nuclear and go straight to renewables. Proven technology that is being deployed orders of magnitude faster and at an orders of magnitude larger scale already.

Even pulling out all the stops that'll still take about 5-7 years. The crisis would still be history.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#527

Post by mytailorisrich »

origin_path wrote: post #520
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd in several levels - you can't move electricity in a box, there are only a few interconnects, all of them regulatable and controllable, they can only move like 15% of tital supply and prices are different for business and for home use. And nothing you've said seems to have relevance to shortages

Yes exactly, your chosen option is to disconnect France from the shared grid (calling it "regulation" doesn't change anything).

There are already electricity price controls in France, which still also exports at market prices.

As ClumsyPiloy said electricity is not something you can easily trade under the radar of the regulator. Technical limitations and regulation do change everything.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#528

Post by dazc »

tsimionescu wrote: post #332
dazc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We generate a lot of this electricity by burning gas which we have to buy from the market where prices are set relative to global supply and demand. This is why we originally stopped mining coal - because Russian gas was so cheap at the time that it was a no-brainer. What could possibly go wrong?

Coal has so many disadvantages beyond simple price that it's not even funny. It is by far the most deadly energy generation method.

This may be true but until there is a suitable alternative most of the developed world will continue to use it.

Europe is now at a critical point where choosing not to burn coal is going to have a high economic cost that many people are not going to be able or willing to pay.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#529

Post by dazc »

origin_path wrote: post #286
dazc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We generate a lot of this electricity by burning gas which we have to buy from the market where prices are set relative to global supply and demand. This is why we originally stopped mining coal - because Russian gas was so cheap at the time that it was a no-brainer. What could possibly go wrong?

UK stopped mining coal mostly in the 1980s when Russia was still the Soviet Union. The cause was not Russian gas which isn't a direct substitute for coal anyway and especially not back then, but rather that the NUM destroyed the domestic coal industry, which became totally uncompetitive relative to more or less any foreign producers. It wasn't Russia specifically, it was that UK mining became dysfunctional and unreli…

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering but I was certain that the abundance of cheap gas was one of the main arguments for closing down a lot of mines that were considered to uneconomical as a result.

Maybe we were also importing cheaper coal from elsewhere?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#530

Post by mantas »

badpun wrote: post #405
mantas wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metal shack would be worse in the middle of the day. Insulated house retains heat at night. Spending day outside is an option, spending a night is much worse.

During the night, you can... open windows and create draft? Unless the night is very hot, it should be enough to bring temperature inside down to manageable levels.

Long summer days up here mean that evenings stay hot. So „managable level“ is in the middle of the night at best. Obviously solution could be go to bed after midnight and then sleep in :)
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