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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#511

Post by sebazzz »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #124
Tade0 wrote: post #86

Electricity map gives a more detailed view on the situation, including imports/exports: https://electricitymaps.com/ Poland has an interesting story behind the price: the government passed legislation which switched from net-metering to net-billing with the start of April, so people rushed to build as many home PV installations as possible to get grandfathered into the previous scheme. A whopping 4-5GW estimated was…

Also, we barely use gas - price is mostly driven by coal.

Which also increased in price.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#512

Post by badpun »

Sakos wrote: post #333
badpun wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're not screwed. Are you sure? Is Europe technically capable of importing enough gas to offset what is no longer coming from Russia? Our abilities to import natural gal from outside UE (LNG terminals and pipelines) have limited throughput - not to mention, someone needs to be willing and able to fill them with gas first.

We're currently importing far more gas than we did before the war. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=52758

This link is only about LNG, i.e. natural gas in its liquid form. I suspect that's why Germany is missing from the chart altogether. In any case, it does not show the whole picture.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#513

Post by ZeroGravitas »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #476
teamonkey wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you could show us with a source?

This is a good one: https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-failure-... Essentially, there’s plenty of installed solar capacity but most of it can’t be utilized fully unless its a perfect day. So you have to essentially rely on backup and keep installing more and more solar capacity beyond your needs because those perfect solar days are so rare in Germany. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone who has ev…

Your article says Germany started off well but politicians were too scared to continue and other nations caught up.

In particular they dragged their heels on ICE to EV transition, which I agree with.

Luckily they shifted from a conservative towards a green government and all that stuff is moving forward again.

> Politicians have ignored other elements, like industrial production, building efficiency and, especially, vehicle traffic. Involving those areas and coming up with an overarching concept, that's the hard part that must now be addressed. And it will determine whether Germany will once again become a model of sustainable economic production or whether the entire experiment will end in failure.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#514

Post by ZeroGravitas »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #498
v4dok wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is flame. You really don't believe that competence is the only reason solar/wind didn't scale up right? If you remember, those countries were/are almost bunkrupt, since 2010 or so. Where would these massive investments come from? I mean the north didn't even want to move away from Russia, certainly they wouldn't care for funding solar in Greece, Spain or Italy. The "Green new deal" however is a step in t…

I agree with the sentiment of this post. The finance required for green energy production is often over looked. After all, India has huge deserts in the north west of their country. Yes, they have some of the largest solar parks in the world, but why isn't 25% of it covered with solar panels? Financing. You wrote: > Can you explain this more? (Zero trolling.) I don't understand what you mean.

I'd put it down to politics.

Financing has generally been a positive for renewables.

The ability to predict output years in advance and lock in prices works well with finance to build up front.

The reason they've not built more is because the whole globe needs to work together or else one nation can save money by not bothering and just polluting instead.

If that politics got fixed (which it has slowly) then renewables would be rolled out more.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#515

Post by ZeroGravitas »

iso1631 wrote: post #365
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

The EU could have invested in solar in Greece, Italy and Spain and Cyprus and interconnects further north, and likewise offshore wind in Denmark, pumped storage in Sweden, Austria and Greece But it failed in securing energy resilience. I hope it has learned its lesson.

The EU (meaning both the individual countries and together as the EU) did all these things. They could and should have done more, but generally have been world leaders in this.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#516

Post by ZeroGravitas »

pyrale wrote: post #407
number6 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you solve that the rivers are too hot to cool the reactors to produce more energy?

The water is never too hot to cool the reactors, it's too hot to release back into the river, for environmental reasons. Evaporative cooling solves that problem, but then you "lose" water, which is never great in a heat wave. A nuclear plant using sea water never stops due to heat waves, because it can dilute any amount of hot water.

The water can get too hot and/or short in supply to cool the nuclear plant.

It's not magic, it's a machine with design limits that extreme weather events can push up against.

It also can pollute rivers and kill fish before it gets to that level.

Sea cooled reactors have issues with jellyfish.

Having said that, the EU needs more gas in winter when it's cold, so doing the maintenance/refueling in the summer makes sense.

Still doesn't change the basic facts that a mix of solar/wind etc. is cheaper and better than nuclear and the annoying 'nuclear isn't affected by the weather' meme is wrong.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#517

Post by ben_w »

teddyh wrote: post #502
ben_w wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Might not even be wrong to have made this choice, I can't tell — economics (which is an important part of politics) is outside my domain.

What possible political reasons might those be?

If I had to guess — and it would be a guess, I'm a software engineer not an economist or a politician — I'd just give the usual catch-phrases that seem to cover everything in politics: is it popular? How much would it cost and what else can we spend that money on? Will this be finished in my term? How likely is the situation which makes this useful (without the benefit of hindsight)?

Men även med så intetsägande och generiska uttalanden betyder det faktum att jag inte kan någonting om svensk politik att jag kanske saknar något som någon svensk väljare skulle anse som "sunt förnuft".

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#518

Post by ben_w »

systemvoltage wrote: post #469
pelasaco wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

last time that i checked, I couldn't find any nuclear reactor to my home. I have however 8kwh solar panel on my roof and I'm quite happy with that.

That sounds cool. Hope you live in a sunny place.

The same thing which transfers electricity from a distant nuclear reactor to your home can also transfer it from a distant solar panel.

This means that two different houses each with PV can support each other when one is sunny and the other cloudy.

In principle that would scale to the world; in practice that's the domain of politics rather than technology, and politics may push for one of many other solutions.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#519

Post by sofixa »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #225
sofixa wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc Not necessarily. The same thing (forced closures of factories) was handled gracefully without job losses during the pandemic through various unemployment schemes. I see no reason why the same can't happen again.

Those schemes are responsible for tremendous inflation which is part of the reason why energy prices are high compared to incomes today. There is no free lunch.

They might have contributed, a bit (all they did was replace income from salaries with equivalent income in unemployment money, and cover some enterprise's expenses; the only monetary difference was coming from those who used to spend a lot of money going out to bars and stuff, who couldn't anymore), but let's not kid ourselves. The main reason for the booming inflation is Russia's invasion of Ukraine and resulting boom in prices of many raw materials, including very important ones like foodstuffs and energy, which are factored in the prices of pretty much everything. I don't understand the people who are hell bent on ignoring that and pinning all the blame on monetary policy. If you really want to blame someone, blame Putin.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#520

Post by origin_path »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #341
origin_path wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It leads to shortages instead as people find ways to arbitrage the price - buy French nuclear power cheap then export it for profit. Fundamentally you can have high prices, shortages or you can disconnect France from the rest of the European grid but you cannot just have cheaper prices in France.

This is absurd in several levels - you can't move electricity in a box, there are only a few interconnects, all of them regulatable and controllable, they can only move like 15% of tital supply and prices are different for business and for home use. And nothing you've said seems to have relevance to shortages

Yes exactly, your chosen option is to disconnect France from the shared grid (calling it "regulation" doesn't change anything).
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