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At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

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Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#331

Post by illuminerdy »

chadcatlett wrote: post #327
illuminerdy wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have major problems with using stories like these to promote the idea that the police did something wrong. The police don't know who that man was, or why he was on property that didn't belong to him. They're not mind readers. If he had provided the identification (or at least his name/DOB) that they had asked for, then it probably would have become clear to them that he was telling the truth. But by REFUSING to giv…

> The police don't know who that man was, or why he was on property that didn't belong to him. They're not mind readers Exactly. They're aren't mind readers but they made a decision that he was commiting a crime or about to commit one. They escalated it, not him.

> They're aren't mind readers but they made a decision that he was commiting a crime or about to commit one. They escalated it, not him.

No, actually that's not what they decided.

They decided that, before they just walk away from their SWORN DUTY to investigate without knowing who he was or whether he actually belonged at that property, they would actually do their jobs and find that out that information by doing a simple thing like asking him to identify himself.

I know some people really don't like police officers, but, in the future, you should try to make sure that that dislike doesn't make you completely irrational.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#332

Post by illuminerdy »

psyc wrote: post #328
illuminerdy wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have major problems with using stories like these to promote the idea that the police did something wrong. The police don't know who that man was, or why he was on property that didn't belong to him. They're not mind readers. If he had provided the identification (or at least his name/DOB) that they had asked for, then it probably would have become clear to them that he was telling the truth. But by REFUSING to giv…

I was detained for 20 minutes for cutting across what I perceived as some empty field, 300 meters down the street from my brother's house. Turns out it was private property, and we weren't in the UK. I presume some busibody at their window called the police. It's a pretty posh subdivision. The land is literally much more valuable than other people's, and I went and walked on it like a wild animal. But that leaves the…

It really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with upbringing.

How come black people (specifically African-Americans) are the only people who seem to have these "racism" issues with police? What about other minorities? How many Indians do you see on TV fighting with police or getting shot? What about Hispanics or Asians? Hell, what about African immigrants? It seems quite strange to me that for all this talk of "systemic racism", none of the other minorities seem to have these issues.

It's almost as if the racist police don't have any issue with any minority OTHER than black people. Which makes me think that it really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with what some people are being taught.

There was a video a few weeks ago of young black children (probably around 5-8 years old) taunting, cursing and HITTING police in Minnesota.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/video-shows-child-hit-and-swea...

Now, you tell me, who taught that child to behave that way? And when that child grows up, what possible interaction could he have with police that DOESN'T end up with him being beaten, shot or killed?

Everyone wants to look at one side of the issue and ignore what is going on everyday in black families and communities that leads to these confrontations.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#333

Post by illuminerdy »

jagtesh wrote: post #329
illuminerdy wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It taught me a serious lesson about the law: They exist only for power and profit. I understand your frustration, but the law does not exist ONLY (or at all, if I'm being honest) for power and profit. The law exists to provide each person with a baseline to guide their interactions, whether it be between them and other individuals, or between them and their government. Now, obviously you have abuses and especially…

Also a clear lack of empathy. I mean, sure, the person did something wrong. But have they stopped being human? Where is the humanity in squeezing every penny out of someone already broken and poor ($250/day is more than what many Americans earn in a day). Then taking away 50% of any hope/real shot at living they have. This sounds like profiteering at their expense. (Edit: this is evil). Jail time and a permanent reco…

I agree that what happened to him should not have happened. But we're the ones who let this stuff happen. We're the ones who vote in the people (or neglect to vote them out) who put these policies in place.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#334

Post by tastyfreeze »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #292
tastyfreeze wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am against student loan forgiveness and am not rich or in any position of power. I am against the government spending tax money to benefit a subset of the country.

The idea behind student loan forgiveness isn't that they only benefit a subset of the country, but that better education benefits the entire country.

They already have the education if they are in debt. Time to pay it off like everybody else.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#335

Post by wizofaus »

illuminerdy wrote: post #332
psyc wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was detained for 20 minutes for cutting across what I perceived as some empty field, 300 meters down the street from my brother's house. Turns out it was private property, and we weren't in the UK. I presume some busibody at their window called the police. It's a pretty posh subdivision. The land is literally much more valuable than other people's, and I went and walked on it like a wild animal. But that leaves the…

It really has nothing to do with race and everything to do with upbringing. How come black people (specifically African-Americans) are the only people who seem to have these "racism" issues with police? What about other minorities? How many Indians do you see on TV fighting with police or getting shot? What about Hispanics or Asians? Hell, what about African immigrants? It seems quite strange to me that for all this…

I get the feeling you don't really understand how racism works. It doesn't mean "I think everyone from a different ethnic background is somehow a worse person". It's often completely subconscious - your reaction to the observed behaviour of another person is nearly always coloured to some extent by the degree you consider them part of some category largely based on their superficial physical appearance (skin colour, hair colour/style, eye or nose shape etc.). Racism is when you let that colouring adversely affect the way you treat such individuals. It might even be assuming that because they look, say, Jewish you treat them with an expectation of being more intelligent than average.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#336

Post by wizofaus »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #305
xg15 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would black or indigenous people as a group commit more crimes?

Is that a serious question? Why would kids growing up in a remote community with no work, surrounded by drug and alcohol abuse, in a culture that tolerates child sex abuse, whose brains are cooked from day one by FASD and inhalants _not_ commit more crime.

There may be well elements within certain cultures that appear on the surface to tolerate child abuse to a degree that seems alarming, but it's a stretch to claim any culture as a whole does so (and at any rate, first nation peoples in Australia emphatically do not share a single culture).

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#337

Post by 1123581321 »

coldtea wrote: post #318
1123581321 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is frustrating, but when were you planning to pay? Couldn’t you have mailed it in? Suspended license driving is anti-social. Any law with a firm cutoff or deadline, and no gradual increase of penalty, sucks for those who barely miss complying with it. There needs to be some kind of consequence, though.

> There needs to be some kind of consequence, though. No, there just need to be better laws - or at least, more fit to the "crime" response. In fact, if he was indeed "5 mph above the speed limit" he shouldn't even have been fined in the first place. Police can and should use discretion (and they often/mostly do, this was just a shitty move in a shitty district). Not to mention that, even given the fine was ok, there…

Separate issues. I said enough in my post to indicate that I am sympathetic regarding the overall situation.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#338

Post by gspetr »

illuminerdy wrote: post #331
chadcatlett wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The police don't know who that man was, or why he was on property that didn't belong to him. They're not mind readers Exactly. They're aren't mind readers but they made a decision that he was commiting a crime or about to commit one. They escalated it, not him.

> They're aren't mind readers but they made a decision that he was commiting a crime or about to commit one. They escalated it, not him. No, actually that's not what they decided. They decided that, before they just walk away from their SWORN DUTY to investigate without knowing who he was or whether he actually belonged at that property, they would actually do their jobs and find that out that information by doing a…

>SWORN DUTY

If they cannot be sued for a breach of it, do they have it?

SCOTUS opined: “Nothing in the language of the Due Process Clause itself requires the State to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens against invasion by private actors.”

(DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (1989) 489 U.S. 189).

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/489/189

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#339

Post by neurostimulant »

germinalphrase wrote: post #210
pleb_nz wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your bank app doesn't have shortcuts to pay fines and taxes?

Is that a thing… anywhere?

Our government may be a bit corrupt, but at surprisingly competent when it comes to taking money online via banking apps.

Re: At $249 per day, prison stays leave ex-inmates deep in debt

#340

Post by yeeyeeyee »

voisin wrote: post #146
MichaelCollins wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're telling me if I asked 100 people on the street, Confronting people on the street with questions like this won't give you a representative sample of what people really think. The sort of people who support the system to maintain their class/lifestyle are likely to ignore your question or to perceive your activist intent and lie to you to avoid getting sucker punched by the 'crazy person on the street.'

I think the poster was making the point of doing a survey. Perhaps not set on the actual method of that survey.

Yep, I meant #2 from https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/on_the_street

Idioms are hard! Want to apologize on behalf of the English language.

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