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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#431

Post by chewz »

Sakos wrote: post #339
jillesvangurp wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect some major support programs will be put in place to address this. And it will probably involve a bit of money printing. No sane government is going to let its citizens deal with going bankrupt because of massively higher energy prices. So Germany, France, etc. will do whatever needs doing to prevent that. The real problem will be industry having to shut down or minimize operations. They'll be the ones bearin…

I've seen a report or two talking about how fertilizer plants are being shutdown or run at reduced capacity across Europe because of gas costs. Electricity is the least of our problems.

Oh, It is much more then just fertilizer plants. Fertilizer plants stoped this week all over EU. (Yara Norway, Azoty Poland etc.)

The moment you stop fertilizer plants you stop supplies of CO2 and NO2 industry gases and that stops dairy plants, meat factories, breweries etc... Basically you stop food production and distribution. And after cows get culled and you have 2-3 years before production can come back to initial levels.

It is going to be rather tough decade for Europe.... And not just Europe...

Europe’s Energy Crisis Threatens Glass Production

https://www.wsj.com/articles/europes-energy-crisis-threatens...

There’s a Carbon Dioxide Shortage, and Food and Drink Makers are Scrambling

https://www.wsj.com/articles/food-beverage-companies-race-to...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#432

Post by systemvoltage »

hhjinks wrote: post #428
systemvoltage wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar resource isn't equally distributed, particularly Europe has poor potential: https://globalsolaratlas.info/map Solar energy isn't the panacea that people make it out to be. Where it is abundant, it makes sense. A lot of places do not have that luxury, yet countries like Germany made foolish investments in solar power which is 10% efficient compared to its full potential in Southwestern USA.

The sun is responsible for a lot more of our energy than just solar. Photosynthesis, wind, solar (of course), hydro, are all energy sources that directly capture energy from the sun, which we then use. Like the parent poster said, it's about transportation. Sometimes nature does that transportation for us.

Absolutely, Sun is also responsible for oil and natural gas if you stretch the horizon longer. Perhaps the only source of energy we have not capture from the Sun is nuclear, which may have been a result of supernova explosions. This pedantry aside, Germany needs better energy policy that is grounded in fundamental resource economics, not driven by ideology/potitical will, but with a stern look at their national energy security (or lack there of) and secure it by the means that's necessary.

Cost of energy has multitude of secondary effects on GDP and food security; the importance of which cannot be understated.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#433

Post by Freestyler_3 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #367
jotm wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as people won't even try to install a solar concentrator while bitching about rising prices, I won't take any of them seriously. Such a simple design, can be used for at least heating water for 3-6 months. But nah. Same for which the roofs. You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you. On that note, you like cruise ships? Also fuck you.

"You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you." I am one of your fuckees. The house I bought was expensive enough as it was. I am not changing a brand new dark roof for a different one for an exorbitant price right now, because budget. A perfectly new roof going down (isn't that actually waste?) for saving, say, 10 of 30 days when the AC is really needed? (I am also not even sure if roof colors are regu…

dark roof helps on cold days right?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#434

Post by hhjinks »

capableweb wrote: post #7
bitL wrote: post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

No idea about the Czech, but that's exactly what's happening in Norway. Due to trade agreements with the EU, we can not discriminate between national and EU customers when selling electricity. To be completely accurate, we aren't selling on a German exchange, we're selling on local ones, but those local exchanges are experiencing price pressure from EU customers due to export capacity recently being increased due to the completion of several new power cables to the EU and UK.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#435

Post by mk89 »

adventured wrote: post #394
pydry wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently the only feasible thing that is going to make enough difference is to buy gas from Russia again. Everything else is something we should have done 5 or even 15 years ago so as to not end up in this position.

Announce a $1 trillion nuclear build-out plan for the EU, to build at least 50-60 new nuclear power plants. Go big, really big, and get started on it soon. Why can't Europe go Manhattan Project / Apollo big for such a critical matter? It's cowardice, a lack of daring, if they choose not to. They have the expertise, they have the financial capability, they are lacking the will (so far). To an extent you can scare mark…

> Announce a $1 trillion nuclear ...

Do you know who is in charge in Germany?

The greens, which don't even want to extend the usage of 3 of the 6 available nuclear plants (supposed to "slowly" shut down at the end of this year).

And now you come and say "hey sorry but we need more nuclear reactors"? Sure. Much better to go to countries which are barely respecting human rights, bow and buy their fuel and gas, because finally who cares, we don't see what they do in their countries.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#436

Post by Freestyler_3 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #241
makomk wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile over here in the UK, the press is blaming the energy crisis partly on the fact that our government didn't spend loads of money on solar and onshore wind like Germany. We're even worse situated to benefit from solar than they are. (The renewable program here is mostly focused on offshore wind, which is the least-bad option given our geography, plus attempts at nuclear that are widely criticized by the press…

Britain is the best position country in Europe for wind and tidal power. There was a project to pay down cable to import reliable, cheap 24/7 power from Iceland and hobernment said 'nah'. They also cancelled a 340 MW tidal project

But the UK has HVDC line to norway right?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#437

Post by victornomad »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

Spain has the 3rd installed capacity of solar power in Europe[1] and 2nd position in wind power[2]. It could be much better but also much worse :)

The previous government in Spain halted lots of funding for new power plants but as far as I know there is a lots of projects going on now. I expect to see a significant increment in the next years.

Also, in the Netherlands most of solar is installed in roofs, while in Spain is almost anecdotal. The previous government made difficult for individuals to install solar at home. Now that's gone but there is no subsidies, so individuals have to pay most of the installation from their own pockets, which are much more shallow than the dutch.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_European_Un... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_European_Uni...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#438

Post by ClumsyPilot »

wongarsu wrote: post #392
throwaway2037 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real question: What is the largest tidal power installation in the world? Why do we see so little of it?

We don't see large tidal power installations because they are not every economical so far. In theory there's a lot of energy to be won, but the salt water causes corrosion issues, and maintenance gets expensive quickly

on the other hand its 100% reliable and needs no fuel, does notndepend on drought, etc.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#439

Post by bitL »

himinlomax wrote: post #157
bitL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC they are mostly using nuclear power plants, i.e. from cheap Russian fuel rods stockpiles.

Fuel is an insignificant part of the cost of nuclear.

Even for nuclear power plants built 40 years ago and already fully paid for/amortized?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#440

Post by victornomad »

iso1631 wrote: post #365
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

The EU could have invested in solar in Greece, Italy and Spain and Cyprus and interconnects further north, and likewise offshore wind in Denmark, pumped storage in Sweden, Austria and Greece But it failed in securing energy resilience. I hope it has learned its lesson.

I don't think is that easy as doing it in the game city skylines :)
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