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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#421

Post by icehawk »

jotm wrote: post #315
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

As long as people won't even try to install a solar concentrator while bitching about rising prices, I won't take any of them seriously. Such a simple design, can be used for at least heating water for 3-6 months. But nah. Same for which the roofs. You don't have a white/silver roof on your house? Fuck you. On that note, you like cruise ships? Also fuck you.

We were having a new roof put on house as a part of buying one, and while we wanted white shingles, the only option available was brown.

Circumstances might not be as simple as you you think they are.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#422

Post by systemvoltage »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80
pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

Solar resource isn't equally distributed, particularly Europe has poor potential: https://globalsolaratlas.info/map

Solar energy isn't the panacea that people make it out to be. Where it is abundant, it makes sense. A lot of places do not have that luxury, yet countries like Germany made foolish investments in solar power which is 10% efficient compared to its full potential in Southwestern USA.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#423

Post by teamonkey »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #316
raverbashing wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, right now, solar is 20% of the electricity on the grid in Germany. Wind is 15% (per the electrictymaps app) Sure it would be better if it was a sunnier place, still...

You should see how much they’ve invested in solar to hit that mark, and how much capacity is being unutilized

Maybe you could show us with a source?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#425

Post by JW_00000 »

systemvoltage wrote: post #422
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

Solar resource isn't equally distributed, particularly Europe has poor potential: https://globalsolaratlas.info/map Solar energy isn't the panacea that people make it out to be. Where it is abundant, it makes sense. A lot of places do not have that luxury, yet countries like Germany made foolish investments in solar power which is 10% efficient compared to its full potential in Southwestern USA.

Is an investment foolish if it has a positive ROI? I live in Belgium, and even without subsidies and before the current increases in electricity prices, solar panels had a payback period of ~ 10 years (while they generally last ~ 25 years). Why would it be foolish to invest in this?

You say that they would be 10x as efficient in Southwestern USA. But how would you transport the electricity from the USA to Germany? Isn't that exactly the problem that the previous commenter is pointing out? I.e. production is not the problem, transportation is.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#426

Post by malepoon »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #238
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany’s obsession with solar and wind is absolutely baffling. It takes very little to know that Germany simply does not have the conditions for large scale solar. Yet it was pushed so heavily in lieu of nuclear power. Absurd.

In an ideal world countries like Spain and Greece invest in solar but they're completely incompetent. So you get the absurd situation that the Netherlands is European leader in solar energy lol. Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

> Most densely populated country in Europe has solar parks for fuck sake.

I don't know how much is from solar parks? About 20% of all houses in the Netherlands have solar panels according to some sources so that adds up.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#427

Post by iso1631 »

seydor wrote: post #282
kitkat_new wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this doesn't change anything. If supply was higher, e.g. using solar/wind/nuclear/coal, prices would be lower

that would work only if non-gas sources generated enough so that gas is not needed at all. As it is right now, solar producers are getting a bonanza in profits because they are being paid at exorbitant prices. At this level, they have no incentive to ramp up production to remove gas from the equation.

If I'm making $10 a day from my solar panel, so after 30 days I'll make $300. Job done.

It instead makes sense for me to buy a new second panel for $100 after 10 days and then I can make $20 a day, then 5 days later buy a 3rd.

30 days into this I'll have made $45, and be making $30 a day instead of $10.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#428

Post by hhjinks »

systemvoltage wrote: post #422
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

Solar resource isn't equally distributed, particularly Europe has poor potential: https://globalsolaratlas.info/map Solar energy isn't the panacea that people make it out to be. Where it is abundant, it makes sense. A lot of places do not have that luxury, yet countries like Germany made foolish investments in solar power which is 10% efficient compared to its full potential in Southwestern USA.

The sun is responsible for a lot more of our energy than just solar. Photosynthesis, wind, solar (of course), hydro, are all energy sources that directly capture energy from the sun, which we then use. Like the parent poster said, it's about transportation. Sometimes nature does that transportation for us.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#429

Post by Mikeb85 »

zionic wrote: post #313
pojzon wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

I’m just exhausted from arguing with the electrically illiterate. HVDC makes transmission from state to state trivial at almost no loss. We should have a national HVDC grid so that a breeze in Texas might power a toaster in Connecticut. Instead we have another $XX Billion for Ukraine. Another $13B here for a new carrier we’ll never need etc etc. So much waste everywhere while fundamental problems go unsolved.

Literally the whole West's defense spending for the last 70 years has been to counter Russia. Supporting Ukraine is the single most cost-effective thing any Western government can do right now...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#430

Post by systemvoltage »

JW_00000 wrote: post #425
systemvoltage wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar resource isn't equally distributed, particularly Europe has poor potential: https://globalsolaratlas.info/map Solar energy isn't the panacea that people make it out to be. Where it is abundant, it makes sense. A lot of places do not have that luxury, yet countries like Germany made foolish investments in solar power which is 10% efficient compared to its full potential in Southwestern USA.

Is an investment foolish if it has a positive ROI? I live in Belgium, and even without subsidies and before the current increases in electricity prices, solar panels had a payback period of ~ 10 years (while they generally last ~ 25 years). Why would it be foolish to invest in this? You say that they would be 10x as efficient in Southwestern USA. But how would you transport the electricity from the USA to Germany? Is…

It's an opportunity cost, particularly in Germany against other RET investments such as nuclear/wind: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030142152...
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