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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#411

Post by timeon »

origin_path wrote: post #301
locallost wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we agree here. I'm not trying to minimize the impact. Factories will shut down, leading to job loses, shortages which will again cause inflation etc. But we can't change that anymore. What we can do is build more capacity.

There is obviously another option that people don't want to point out - start buying Russian gas again. The idea they're resisting to sell it is wrong. There's a whole pipeline lying idle ready to go the moment sanctions are lifted. People are acting like this is a natural crisis. It's not, it's an artificial one created by political choices. This will lead to political extremism as voters realize they are freezing o…

> There is obviously another option that people don't want to point out - start buying Russian gas again

What I think is more likely is that coal is back on the menu.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#412

Post by PeterisP »

njsteinsund wrote: post #382
PeterisP wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really worth it. A ballpark calculation - ignoring any infrastructure and time for charging/offloading, assuming you get the batteries and the electricity for free, using Tesla batteries as an example, a MWh of them would weigh more than 6 tons; so freight truck can carry at most 2-3 MWh worth of batteries (density is likely to be an issue) and the sale price of that truck full of electricity even at the current…

At this 6km/20 mins long ferry crossing the electric ferry containing 1MWh of batteries can charge at €10/MWh on the north side of the fjord, with the price on the south side at approximately €500/MWh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Ampere

A 6km high voltage transmission line will be much more effective still.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#414

Post by imhoguy »

foxhill wrote: post #303
Reason077 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

even if it ran on gasoline created from carbon dioxide extracted from the atmosphere?

Exactly or simply biogas/biomethane as fuel.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#415

Post by imhoguy »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #316
raverbashing wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, right now, solar is 20% of the electricity on the grid in Germany. Wind is 15% (per the electrictymaps app) Sure it would be better if it was a sunnier place, still...

You should see how much they’ve invested in solar to hit that mark, and how much capacity is being unutilized

And how much all that solar equipment garbage is going to be disposed soon.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#416

Post by bitL »

PeterisP wrote: post #348
bitL wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the time of energy crisis why would the integrated energy market be the highest priority? Is it more important to trade, or to keep economy running utilizing whatever local advantages available?

There is an energy crisis across all regions of Europe; disrupting trade may help some places but hurt others much more and would make it worse in aggregate, so EU treaties prohibit that. I mean, whenever electricity is being exported at high cost, that high cost is an indication that this other place has it even worse; and blocking trade would make electricity cheaper at the exporting place, but cause a larger spike…

That's in theory; in practice there is a bunch of resellers that are making crazy amount of money due to "merit pricing" that makes sense in a stable market, but not now. The places you mention are much worse off than by a simple price ceiling per electricity type.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#417

Post by mqus »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #65

At $0.40/kWh Germany is now paying the same or slightly less than a PG&E TOU customer. I didn’t realize their electricity was so much cheaper than ours to start with.

I'm pretty sure this price is before taxes (and maybe more payments) and german taxes are pretty heavy, ca. 30% of the consumer price is taxes and stuff, ~25% go to the network operator and only ~45% are power generation[1](~the prices in the visualization). So you have to roughly double that to get consumer €/kWh (ofc daily prices are a bit different than a contract over a whole year).

[1, german sadly] https://strom-report.de/strompreise/strompreis-zusammensetzu...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#418

Post by pydry »

adventured wrote: post #394
pydry wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently the only feasible thing that is going to make enough difference is to buy gas from Russia again. Everything else is something we should have done 5 or even 15 years ago so as to not end up in this position.

Announce a $1 trillion nuclear build-out plan for the EU, to build at least 50-60 new nuclear power plants. Go big, really big, and get started on it soon. Why can't Europe go Manhattan Project / Apollo big for such a critical matter? It's cowardice, a lack of daring, if they choose not to. They have the expertise, they have the financial capability, they are lacking the will (so far). To an extent you can scare mark…

>Announce a $1 trillion nuclear build-out plan

Ready in 10-20 years.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#419

Post by Freestyler_3 »

mbreese wrote: post #243
chrisseaton wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most places electricity cables are buried. In California they have them blowing around in the trees so they start fires.

This isn’t true. In most places I’ve been, electrical lines have all been elevated on poles. Where I currently live, there is a pretty intensive line clearing program each spring to keep the lines clear. Even in places where house level lines were buried, the middle transmission lines were still elevated. And I believe all high voltage transmission lines are above ground. The difference is that California historicall…

No, not all high voltage is above ground.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#420

Post by Scoundreller »

PeterisP wrote: post #343
zionic wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m just exhausted from arguing with the electrically illiterate. HVDC makes transmission from state to state trivial at almost no loss. We should have a national HVDC grid so that a breeze in Texas might power a toaster in Connecticut. Instead we have another $XX Billion for Ukraine. Another $13B here for a new carrier we’ll never need etc etc. So much waste everywhere while fundamental problems go unsolved.

It's not a matter of cost, there's no political desire for a national HVDC grid so that a breeze in Texas might power a toaster in Connecticut - Texas has explicitly refused connecting to the rest of the country for many years.

Cost is a bit of a problem: each HVDC edge costs a lot, hence why it’s used almost entirely for long distance point to point links.

Maybe that will come down over time?

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