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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#401
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The true market failure is on demand side. Demand is what drives the price not the supply. With low enough demand the price just doesn't go very high.

Sure, you are free to be the first one to freeze to death this winter or melt during the summer. I don't think anyone is meaningfully wasting electricity in Europe currently. Demand can't go to zero. Supply dropped significantly.

Ekaros is correct. Lots of people pay a fixed cost for their electricity whether it is generated at peak time with lots of gas or in the middle of the night with wind and nuclear.

We don't currently do a good job of responding to price signals. We have some plans to expand this, which are being rushed into service after being neglected for a long time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61949246

And even that has to lie about "it not being about rationing" because price signals are so foreign to the consumer energy market.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put this into more human terms: a tesla model Y has a 75kwh battery. So this means to charge it, at home, would cost between $0.75, $2.25, and $15. A normal air conditioner uses about 3.5kw. So if it runs for 6 hours a day, so 21kwh/day. $0.21/day, $0.63/day, and $4.2/day.

How much in Cali?

If you're paying in Cali you can multiply the USD amount by 5000 to get the approximate cost in Colombian pesos

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only if customers are willing to buy at that price. Which is only true now because there are no cheaper competitors to turn to, which in turn is because the entire system is operating at capacity. In other words, the price is the marginal price: at the very edge. What is the highest price consumers want to pay for X amount of electricity. You should split it up: say price of electricity is 5$. That means: Electrici…

not all plants can be paused quickly... Sometimes that means: Electricity produced at x$: sells for -5$ (I pay you to use it)

Yea there’s a lot of forecasting, inefficiencies, and other distortions involved. Energy supply chains aren’t easy

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and automotive emissions account for ~10% of all CO2 emissions. 20% if you want to include all transport (e.g. sea shipping, planes, etc.) there’s been a lot of media attention on how individuals need to make an effort to beat climate change, but the reality is that industry is the only sector able to make a meaningful impact.

This thread is discussing EVs vs gasoline so not sure why you're changing the topic suddenly.

apologies, i don’t understand. you seemed to suggest cars are a significant contributor to CO2 emission.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#405
post #387
post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That house would be much worse without the insulation. That's why it's unbearably hot in summer in say a shack made of out sheet metal (such shack would be much more bearable if it was insulated).

Metal shack would be worse in the middle of the day. Insulated house retains heat at night. Spending day outside is an option, spending a night is much worse.

During the night, you can... open windows and create draft? Unless the night is very hot, it should be enough to bring temperature inside down to manageable levels.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#406
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just wrong. The components of electricity generation - the fuel - has exploded in price. You may not be aware, but there's a war going on that is sort of impacting things on top of existing inflation. I realize picking a scape goat feels easy but it's poor form and leads to not fixing the actual problem.

If that were true countries that don't depend on russia would not be affected. Greece uses little natgas, and only only 4% of it is russian, yet it sees some of the most steep rises.

Similar price trends are to be expected across all nodes in highly interconnected grids.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but nuclear fuel can be sourced from elsewhere - it does not have the steep physical barriers of nat gas. And any existing nuclear power issues can be solved. The amount of sunlight your receive, however, will always be the same.

How do you solve that the rivers are too hot to cool the reactors to produce more energy?

The water is never too hot to cool the reactors, it's too hot to release back into the river, for environmental reasons. Evaporative cooling solves that problem, but then you "lose" water, which is never great in a heat wave.

A nuclear plant using sea water never stops due to heat waves, because it can dilute any amount of hot water.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#408
post #92
post #4

I've read somewhere that Czechs (day ahead price of 463EUR/MWh) produce electricity at 0.1EUR/MWh, then sell it to an exchange in Germany and buy it back for the "market" price. Somebody over there is getting extremely rich for no reason and I am wondering why nobody is doing anything about it...

That very much sounds like you're calling for the collapse of the integrated european energy market. This is not meant as an attack on you, just an observation that these nationalistic calls will continue growing louder from every part of the continent, and it is not even September yet. Already Norway has publicly commented on the possibility of rationing exports. We have yet to even scratch the surface of the effect…

This is really a contentless comment. It sounds like they are doing something that you deem problematic and nefarious according to your own ideology? So what?

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#409
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sun is always shining somewhere. We need more interconnects.

When it's shining on the Pacific, there's not a lot of landmass. The rest of the day works though.

Floating PV? https://www.pveurope.eu/solar-modules/singapore-offshore-flo...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#410
post #88

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

Are there any plans to build an infrastructure to connect both networks? It seems like a great idea in the current situation

A political issue with this is that Northern Norway has been exempt from the 25% VAT as one of many measures to make living in Northern Norway more attractive. Until now the cost of power in both north and south has been pretty much the same, meaning people in power zone NO4 have paid about the same price for power, but not the VAT.

But now that the price has gone up by such an enormous amount in the south, connecting north and south will not reduce the price in the other zones, it will likely just cause NO4 to go up to the same level as in the rest of Norway. This is mainly due to the NO4 being basically not connected to the the synchronous grid of Continental Europe, while the other regions are to a much larger extent due to underwater cables going to the UK, Denmark and Germany. This means that the price of power in Europe directly influences the price of electricity in NO1-3, but not NO4. At least not to the same extent, although Sweden makes a killing buying cheap power from NO4 and selling it to mainland Europe, or even straight back to southern Norway. As such, connecting NO4 to the rest of Norway and by extention the European grid, would not be very popular in the north, but to be fair, the price increase has not exactly been popular in the south either.

The industry in Norway is highly electrified and some sectors are very energy intensive, such as aluminium production, which due to using electrolysis, runs almost entirely off the grid. Manufacturing used almost 37% of all power consumed in Norway in 2017, with power-intensive manufacturing accounting for over 80% of total energy use in the manufacturing sector that year.[0] This is also an issue which will need to be considered when talking about increasing transfer capacity between the two zones.

I hope this gives some insight, even if I rambled a bit and touched on a lot of different aspects. I'm by no means an expert, but have become interested in the subject as so many other Norwegians have lately. I'd love to answer more questions if you have any!

[0] https://energifaktanorge.no/en/norsk-energibruk/energibruken... (Source in English and published by the Norwegian Ministry of Petroleum and Energy)

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