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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#391

Post by mantas »

guerby wrote: post #344
mantas wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner :( And electrical ventilation is a must all year round to get air fresh, keep module at bay ant not loose energy living with open windows. Energy saving in bottom line will be abysmal :(

You're probably missing thermal mass in the house. Comes with bio-sourced insulating material, but usually not with rock/glass whool or polystyrene & the like.

Thermal mass doesn't help if it's hot for a days. Then it just keeps the heat.

In winter, the house works great to retain heat. But as I learned during construction when I had to prepare for laying flooring, it took a while to heat it up.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#392

Post by wongarsu »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #372
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain is the best position country in Europe for wind and tidal power. There was a project to pay down cable to import reliable, cheap 24/7 power from Iceland and hobernment said 'nah'. They also cancelled a 340 MW tidal project

Real question: What is the largest tidal power installation in the world? Why do we see so little of it?

We don't see large tidal power installations because they are not every economical so far. In theory there's a lot of energy to be won, but the salt water causes corrosion issues, and maintenance gets expensive quickly

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#393

Post by bcrosby95 »

RivieraKid wrote: post #275
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

> The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental. WTF does that mean?

I assume it's borrowing language from incidental vs fundamental complexity in programming.

Fundamental is core to the problem, incidental is stuff we add because of our imperfect solutions.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#394

Post by adventured »

pydry wrote: post #364
locallost wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all that, but in the short term things are going to be very expensive. As I already wrote, I see it as an opportunity to do what you said - ditch fossil fuels for good. There's no point in doing anything else, like whining. But if you think the landing will be anything other than rough, then we'll have to disagree.

Currently the only feasible thing that is going to make enough difference is to buy gas from Russia again. Everything else is something we should have done 5 or even 15 years ago so as to not end up in this position.

Announce a $1 trillion nuclear build-out plan for the EU, to build at least 50-60 new nuclear power plants. Go big, really big, and get started on it soon. Why can't Europe go Manhattan Project / Apollo big for such a critical matter? It's cowardice, a lack of daring, if they choose not to. They have the expertise, they have the financial capability, they are lacking the will (so far).

To an extent you can scare markets into providing cheaper prices in a variety of ways.

That goes for scaring Russia, which is still living in a fantasy bubble about the context. They do not believe the rest of Europe can or will become independent of their supply.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#395

Post by ZeroGravitas »

stark98 wrote: post #88
pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

Are there any plans to build an infrastructure to connect both networks? It seems like a great idea in the current situation

Would be cheaper to build wind power.

The reason the southern areas have high prices is because they are connected to other markets.

Connect the northern stuff better and it'll equalise the price but not substantially. High cost low gain compared with cheap new wind generation.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#396

Post by xvedejas »

PeterisP wrote: post #311
xvedejas wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without thinking too hard about the efficiency, it's clearly just not a _safe_ proposition with our current best (most energy-dense per weight) batteries.

Gasoline has much more energy density per weight than batteries, and we truck that around all the time.

Gasoline isn't self-oxidizing, so you can put out a gasoline fire (instead of just "letting it burn"). Also gasoline doesn't burn at 2000C, I believe.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#397

Post by maximegarcia »

candiodari wrote: post #323
merely-unlikely wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Price is a function of whatever price the seller sets. Only if customers are willing to buy at that price. Which is only true now because there are no cheaper competitors to turn to, which in turn is because the entire system is operating at capacity. Over time the high prices incentivizes bringing more power generation and transport online, which is exactly what we are seeing - new/reopened nuclear, coal, and nat…

> Only if customers are willing to buy at that price. Which is only true now because there are no cheaper competitors to turn to, which in turn is because the entire system is operating at capacity. In other words, the price is the marginal price: at the very edge. What is the highest price consumers want to pay for X amount of electricity. You should split it up: say price of electricity is 5$. That means: Electrici…

not all plants can be paused quickly...

Sometimes that means: Electricity produced at x$: sells for -5$ (I pay you to use it)

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#398

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Joeri wrote: post #292
bjourne wrote: post #60

Remember that, while prices have soared, electricity generation has not become more expensive. The "electricity crisis" is a crisis for European consumers but a massive windfall for producers. This is a market failure - not an electricity failure.

Market price is based on the price of the most expensive megawatt produced. The price moves up and down to balance production with consumption, a necessity for every grid, and producers set prices at which they are willing to inject quantities. The current problem is that in europe a lot of the electricity is made by gas plants and those plants are seeing their costs rise. They therefore increase the price at which t…

The people selling the gas plants the gas are also making windfall profits.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#399

Post by wongarsu »

atemerev wrote: post #325
raverbashing wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, right now, solar is 20% of the electricity on the grid in Germany. Wind is 15% (per the electrictymaps app) Sure it would be better if it was a sunnier place, still...

It would be even more better if they didn't close their nuclear power plants. I am still shocked how sad and untimely this decision had been.

It wouldn't change much in this map, German nuclear plants always had cooling issues in hot summer. No open-loop cooling to prevent water from getting too hot for the fish, and plants capable of closed loop cooling eventually get issues with the river's water level. France has the same issues right now with their nuclear plants.

Winter is of course a different issue

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