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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

euenergy.live

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#381

Post by ZeroGravitas »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #372
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain is the best position country in Europe for wind and tidal power. There was a project to pay down cable to import reliable, cheap 24/7 power from Iceland and hobernment said 'nah'. They also cancelled a 340 MW tidal project

Real question: What is the largest tidal power installation in the world? Why do we see so little of it?

I think there's a 2MW test turbine off Scotland which I think is the biggest in the world.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-she...

Just not as cost effective as wind, which got to piggyback of onshore turbine development.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#382

Post by njsteinsund »

PeterisP wrote: post #328
colechristensen wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll start: Load up a truck with several tons of batteries, charge them, and ship the electricity south.

Not really worth it. A ballpark calculation - ignoring any infrastructure and time for charging/offloading, assuming you get the batteries and the electricity for free, using Tesla batteries as an example, a MWh of them would weigh more than 6 tons; so freight truck can carry at most 2-3 MWh worth of batteries (density is likely to be an issue) and the sale price of that truck full of electricity even at the current…

At this 6km/20 mins long ferry crossing the electric ferry containing 1MWh of batteries can charge at €10/MWh on the north side of the fjord, with the price on the south side at approximately €500/MWh... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Ampere

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#383

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Scoundreller wrote: post #376
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Battery train companies include this in their plans. Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points (while still staying on schedule) to act as a variable demand for the local grids. Batteries just extend that. https://arstechnica.netblogpro.com/science/2021/11/can-we-ru... > The analysis becomes very interesting when the researchers leave freight behind and start thinking about w…

> Even non Battery electric trains can speed up or slow down at different points I want this for everything with a battery, it’s own internal thermal mass or things I don’t need to complete as quickly as possible. E.g.: laptop, washing machine (clothes or dishes), dryer, refrigerator, hot water heater, hvac, etc. It just seems so underdeveloped on the consumer side.

Hot water heaters are the the low hanging fruit here. Australian water heaters have been using overnight coal power for decades with very basic systems.

https://es.catapult.org.uk/project/consumer-insight-unlockin...

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#384

Post by qzw »

colechristensen wrote: post #279
colechristensen wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fun ideas for what to do with a megawatt hour for $10? (that aren't mining crypto)

I'll start: Load up a truck with several tons of batteries, charge them, and ship the electricity south.

And do what when you get there? Sell them by the roadside like fresh vegetables? A few tons of batteries' worth of electricity is hardly worth a utility company's time.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#385

Post by mantas »

goodpoint wrote: post #104
mantas wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner :( And electrical ventilation is a must all year round to get air fresh, keep module at bay ant not loose energy living with open windows. Energy saving in bottom line will be abysmal :(

> But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner It's the opposite. Insulation protects you from heat as well. That's why refrigerators are very much insulated.

Insulation protects only so long till it heats up. Then it keeps the heat inside.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#386

Post by czottmann »

andrepd wrote: post #160
boshomi wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eye watering French power prices: * Baseload from nov22 to feb23 above 2000€/MWh * Peak Load nov22 to dec22 at 3000€/MWh * Peak Load Q1/23 at 2970€/MWh But the prices for other nations also went up steeply. [1] https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snipp...

France has a shitload of nuclear capacity and low dependence on gas. Why is their energy rising so much?

Heat wave. The water used for cooling the plant is usually released into nearby rivers which due to the current heat waves are too hot already; to avoid the rivers boiling & dying the power plants can't release any more water. No cooling possible, and the plants have to put in standby.

At least that's my understanding of the situation.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#387

Post by mantas »

badpun wrote: post #199
mantas wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner :( And electrical ventilation is a must all year round to get air fresh, keep module at bay ant not loose energy living with open windows. Energy saving in bottom line will be abysmal :(

That house would be much worse without the insulation. That's why it's unbearably hot in summer in say a shack made of out sheet metal (such shack would be much more bearable if it was insulated).

Metal shack would be worse in the middle of the day. Insulated house retains heat at night. Spending day outside is an option, spending a night is much worse.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#388

Post by mantas »

foepys wrote: post #235
mantas wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More insulation is double edge sword. I moved into a super-energy-efficient house here in north/east Europe. Heating in winter is damn cheap. But retention works in summer too… so I had to get air conditioner :( And electrical ventilation is a must all year round to get air fresh, keep module at bay ant not loose energy living with open windows. Energy saving in bottom line will be abysmal :(

You should leave the windows open at night to let the cooler air in and cool the insulation from the inside. Once you let the heat inside by opening windows in the heat, you have lost, that's true.

I did that last year. But it doesn't cool down enough in the evening to sleep comfortably.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#389

Post by 01100011 »

Reason077 wrote: post #193
pojzon wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

The transmission issues will be solved: more and more HVDC interconnections start construction in Europe every year. Grids that still rely heavily on coal and natural gas can, and will, be improved. An EV bought today will only get cleaner as the grid gets cleaner. A new fossil-fuel vehicle today will always be dependent on fossil fuels, and will always pollute at least as much as the day it was purchased.

This response is correct. Be sure to forward it to the folks in the EU this winter when they're unable to charge their cars or heat their homes.

We should be thinking long term, but we can't forget about the present and the path to the glorious future. I think in hindsight we'll soon admit that we botched the transition to a greener world and caused needless suffering by putting ideologies before engineering.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#390

Post by locallost »

makomk wrote: post #234
locallost wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's correct for the day ahead price [1]. Of course the most expensive producer needs to be actually needed to satisfy the demand side. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merit_order

Which is to say that it's determined by both the supply and demand side: if the price were lower there would be people willing to buy at that price but not enough to sell them, and if it were higher there would presumably be people willing to sell at that price but not enough buyers. It is, in some fairly fundamental sense, the actual market price of electricity at that point in time.

Yes but renewables & nuclear suppliers would be willing to deliver for a lot less money. The question I answered was, why is it so expensive when we don't use so much gas. The price however gets set by the most expensive supplier. As soon as you need to use gas to deliver electricity, the price skyrockets.
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