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We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

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Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#121

Post by tqkxzugoaupvwqr »

kirse wrote: post #103
gcau wrote: post #74

Things like the big bang seem to be things after the beginning of the universe. In the same way, the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god...". If he's eternal, who/what made him eternal? We have the same problem in science, and I think any explanation/theory would have the same problem. Also, I dislike that when some physicists explain this they say, "sure, you can get something…

the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god..." It is if you assume God is bound to the chain of causation, but obviously any creator is likely unbound by the system of laws in which his creation exists, the same as when we create a video game we stand apart from it. I always liked the Dr. Quantum Flatland as an example of god-like capabilities wrt dimensionality: https://www.youtub…

Even if the creator exists outside their creation under different laws of physics (if any), who created the creator or how did the creator come to be?

(I can’t watch the video right now.)

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#122

Post by aurelien »

This universe became just in universes bubbles explosion. One day, we will be able to determine which of the marbles of universes in the universes bag of marbles collide to create this one new marbles. Sciences is here to go further, not to stop thinking at the edge of one way of think.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#123

Post by tsimionescu »

singularity2001 wrote: post #116

the radius of the visible universe is about 14.0 billion parsecs (about 45.7 billion light-years), while the age of the universe is 13.787 ± 0.020 billion years. I must have missed out on some caveats to the speed of light.

You did - space-time can expand with unbounded speed, and that is what happened in the early universe. Remember that the big bang is not some point in space-time which we are moving away from, it is a point in space-time that has expanded to the size of the current universe (and keeps expanding).

The speed of light is only a limit on how fast matter/energy can move through space-time.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#124

Post by aliasxneo »

tsimionescu wrote: post #119
aliasxneo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the case of the Bible, it makes it explicitly clear that God is uncreated. Asking the question, "Who created an uncreated God?" doesn't make much sense in that case.

Of course, but then immediately leads to the question: if we admit that it is possible for God itself to be un-created, why can't the universe itself be uncreated as well?

That was a popular theory for a long time, although I think it's declined over the years. I don't recall the reasons why, though.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#125

Post by barrysteve »

ben_w wrote: post #115
barrysteve wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean gene unfolding, meterology, lhc, fusion, space research, ect have all been served tremendously by computing. Granted one could say they are temporarily less useful due to a local peak of optimization, buut that's a long way from throwing out all the sine waves and commiting to perfect metaphysics.

Take any or all of your examples, and add an extra variable: if (unix_time>>128) % 2 == 1 { explode(); } Easy to code, unfalsifiable. Adds nothing to our understanding.

Who would do that? What does it prove to do that?

Describe a metaphysical house that could never exist. One with mc esher stairs and melted clocks everywhere.

Who would do that? What would it prove to do that?

Yes computers can be a waste of time.. what's your point? You want me to tell you how to improve science with computing to save you from simplicity, or should I just instead do it...

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#126

Post by shukantpal »

tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: post #121
kirse wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god..." It is if you assume God is bound to the chain of causation, but obviously any creator is likely unbound by the system of laws in which his creation exists, the same as when we create a video game we stand apart from it. I always liked the Dr. Quantum Flatland as an example of god-like capabilities wrt dimensionality: https://www.youtub…

Even if the creator exists outside their creation under different laws of physics (if any), who created the creator or how did the creator come to be? (I can’t watch the video right now.)

That question assumes the default state is they didn’t exist already

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#127

Post by [deleted] »

gcau wrote: post #74

Things like the big bang seem to be things after the beginning of the universe. In the same way, the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god...". If he's eternal, who/what made him eternal? We have the same problem in science, and I think any explanation/theory would have the same problem. Also, I dislike that when some physicists explain this they say, "sure, you can get something…

[deleted]

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#128

Post by stackbutterflow »

Victerius wrote: post #58
chiefalchemist wrote: post #49

But isn't Webb calling the BBT into question? Even if we answer how it began there is still: 1) Why? 2) What was there before that? 3) And before that? 4( And before that? And so on. It's the rabbit hole only hallucinogens can fill.

My pet theory: Something has always existed. There was no beginning. No origin. No first cause. No t=0. No start. It's always been there. What was before that? That. And that. And that. Always that. And the Second Law of Thermodynamics is not absolute and can be broken.

If time exists then there's always a before. Unless at some point time didn't exist. But if time didn't exist and then suddenly something started to tick, that's still a transition from "no time" to "time" and this "no time" was before "time".

These thoughts are driving me crazy. There must be a piece of the puzzle we're missing.

There must be something about time that isn't or wasn't always linear. Otherwise there's no end to the "who created it" question.

It's similar to asking what contains the universe. And what contains the thing that contains the universe.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#129

Post by Keyframe »

tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: post #121
kirse wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god..." It is if you assume God is bound to the chain of causation, but obviously any creator is likely unbound by the system of laws in which his creation exists, the same as when we create a video game we stand apart from it. I always liked the Dr. Quantum Flatland as an example of god-like capabilities wrt dimensionality: https://www.youtub…

Even if the creator exists outside their creation under different laws of physics (if any), who created the creator or how did the creator come to be? (I can’t watch the video right now.)

recursion is one of the possible explanations as well. No beginning, no end.

Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know

#130

Post by [deleted] »

gcau wrote: post #74

Things like the big bang seem to be things after the beginning of the universe. In the same way, the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god...". If he's eternal, who/what made him eternal? We have the same problem in science, and I think any explanation/theory would have the same problem. Also, I dislike that when some physicists explain this they say, "sure, you can get something…

[deleted]
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