I enjoyed the video. But clickbaity title with "we will never know" disgusts me.
But that is the whole point. It's a question outside what science can ever know, even in principle.
We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
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Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#92What if it never began and has simply always existed? That is the likely scenario, as the moment you think about it beginning, you again face beginning from what? What was that called before the universe other than the universe?
Then we have a lot of explanation needed as to why entropy was low and smooth between 13 and 14 billion years ago.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#93If we will never know, then there should be some kind of proof that the beginning of the universe is un-knowledgeable, sort of like Godel's theory of incompleteness. But there is none, so the affirmation is incorrect:
We don't know if we will never know.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#94Things like the big bang seem to be things after the beginning of the universe. In the same way, the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god...". If he's eternal, who/what made him eternal? We have the same problem in science, and I think any explanation/theory would have the same problem. Also, I dislike that when some physicists explain this they say, "sure, you can get something…
Indeed. We'll never know the beginning of everything; science cannot accomplish that, religion cannot provide satisfactory answers, and philosophy will always leave you half empty half full.
That being said, discovering things is fun, so as human beings we should not stop doing science/religion/philosophy/etc ever.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#95For decades they told us it was the Big Bang and we believed them.
«they», «us», «we» ? no matter what your beliefs are, I urge you to figure out where it comes from, by who, and how your beliefs are shared.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#96Quoted post unavailable.
Here's how I understood it: "The Gods themselves are part of creation. Even if there were a Creator, he may not know for certain whether it was indeed him who created"
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#97"The issue is that physicists can’t accept the scientifically honest answer: We don’t know, and leave it at that." This sentence jumped out for me. Is there some kind of crusade going on that I have missed the beginning of? This feels like a strange sentence in this piece and feels like a (misguided) attack.
Early pixel blob analysis (I don't know a better way to put this, check Figure 5 in the paper) from the James Webb: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2207.09428.pdf Suggests that the universe may be older than the Big Bang theory predicts. There are a lot of qualifiers on both sides of this, so I would suggest sitting back with some popcorn and enjoying the spectacle of a lot of primate descended life forms earnestly debating so…
I can't open that link right now. If that's what I'm expecting it to be, the abstract begins "Panic!" as part of a disco pun?
If so: https://youtu.be/I7lxzS6K9PU
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#98Maybe it stops being science and starts being math, but I don’t think that means we should discourage people from doing it. That said, I am sympathetic to an argument that we may not need to fund such inquiries. “We will never know” sounds overly pessimistic to me; I could imagine someone from the 10th century claiming we will never know the trillionth prime number.
> “We will never know” sounds overly pessimistic to me; I could imagine someone from the 10th century claiming we will never know the trillionth prime number.
There are tons of stuff we as human beings we'll discover and be pretty confident about it. There are other things we'll never know. I think that's part of being human, to know our limits.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#99Things like the big bang seem to be things after the beginning of the universe. In the same way, the issue with a god is "who created god, and who created that who created god...". If he's eternal, who/what made him eternal? We have the same problem in science, and I think any explanation/theory would have the same problem. Also, I dislike that when some physicists explain this they say, "sure, you can get something…
In the case of the Bible, it makes it explicitly clear that God is uncreated. Asking the question, "Who created an uncreated God?" doesn't make much sense in that case.
Re: We don't know how the universe began, and we will never know
#100If we will never know, then there should be some kind of proof that the beginning of the universe is un-knowledgeable, sort of like Godel's theory of incompleteness. But there is none, so the affirmation is incorrect: We don't know if we will never know.
Proof requires axioms, and the universe hints towards what they are but isn’t explicit.
Per thermododynamic axioms, incompleteness is implied by the arrow of time and information atrophy. This would imply an unknowable beginning.