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Day ahead electricity prices for EU

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Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#181

Post by kkfx »

locallost wrote: post #95

This is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not b…

The only fast option is another: arrest those who control the current energy market for crime against humanity and re-nationalize the sector. Really. With them in jail FOR LIFE other like them will do their best to avoid getting equally in jails and States have nothing to deal with "prices".

For instance in France more than half of the national NPP are offline due to needed maintenance the private owners postpone at maximum to maximize their profit. Arrange the result take time. Jail the aforementioned owners telling anyone in the private sector that if they committed criminal business they can choose to be silent and cooperative of face an equal fate will suffice.

Private sector is THE SOLE responsible of the current prices, they do not came from war or natural scarcity. Telling them that "good times are passed" for them not for the Citizens at a whole as they want instead suffice for a quick U-turn since they know they are unarmed.

Renewables can't be nor fast nor an option simply because the sole that can live on them at unbearably high prices in the actual market are single private NEW homes in places where p.v. is effective enough and climate is not that cold. In a city, a dense European one, there is no room for renewables to really produce energy, you can only make some show for commercial purposes. Oh, I say that as one who actually have built a new home five years ago, with p.v. and small lithium backup, so to speak.

The quickest way is one: telling those who profit that revenge sentiments start to be in the air and they will FAIL to ride them to push a new hoax this time. However since people are not in that mood, actually many have thirst for blood but not for positive actions energy giants and their public friends are not startled at all. That's is.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#182

Post by legulere »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #127
capableweb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why nobody is doing anything about it > I've read somewhere Before wondering why someone, somewhere is not doing something, confirm that the thing is actually happening in the first place.

EDF, the French electricity provider is able to produce electricity at about 20€/MWh. It is forced to sell it to leeches (read: "competition"), up to 100TWh, at 42€/MWh through a mechanism called ARENH. Should they need this 100TWh (and they do), they are forced to buy it at current market prices, or anywhere between 530 and 715€/MWh. The "competition" are resellers that have not installed a single MW of production,…

Can they produce electricity though? Half their nuclear reactors are down.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#183

Post by pclmulqdq »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80
pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

Have people considered battery trucks? I don't mean battery-powered trucks, but trucks full of batteries. It seems kind of silly when you can use hydrogen or natural gas in your trucks instead, but battery trucks may be the lowest-loss form of long-distance electricity transport.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#184

Post by pornel »

pojzon wrote: post #175
pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

Backlash is probably because such argument can sound like “better give up on EVs and go back to ICE” rather than “let’s invest more in the energy infrastructure”.

If you call people fanatics, they won’t believe you’re making a good faith argument.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#185

Post by _dain_ »

wongarsu wrote: post #87
neverrroot wrote: post #20

Green without a proper plan? Germany/Europe will be the green poster children on how not to do it. Guess who will damage the environment more in the end.

Why single out Germany when there are 14 countries on that list with higher prices? Gas as a transitionary energy source is something lots of countries have bet on. Meanwhile France is doing a great job showcasing the problems of Nuclear during heat waves (they will be the ones laughing in the Winter though)

Because the Germans have a huge say in EU energy market regulations.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#186

Post by 411111111111111 »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #183
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All energy problem reduce to problems of energy transportation. We have a huge fusion reactor in the sky. The challenge is capture and transit. The problem is not incidental; it's fundamental.

Have people considered battery trucks? I don't mean battery-powered trucks, but trucks full of batteries. It seems kind of silly when you can use hydrogen or natural gas in your trucks instead, but battery trucks may be the lowest-loss form of long-distance electricity transport.

No, they're not.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#187

Post by kkfx »

Consider a thing: prices are MEANINGLESS, really. At a certain point people will revolt, simply. The revolt might be ride or not but the actual profiteers (or some puppets, who appear adversaries to many people's eyes but that's just theater, like the actual far-right movements) but it will happen. At that point PP will simply run depending on their technical capacity, no one will talk about price or consumption in different terms.

That's an old classic we already see at the start of '900 where the level of rapacious businesses and corruption reach a break point. To save themselves in skin the failed profiteers choose to push nazi-fascism with success, apparently those dictatorship was a new and different beast but in reality they just makes the public actions needed to keep a country run, leaving profit to the private, for some time. The profit part makes the game last little time, a war was needed (see Ucraine and Taiwan next), and after the war a new start. It's a cycle who can last until or all the world became capitalist in the same way and so there is nothing left to steal or we simply have depleted enough resources to be unable to survive as a modern civilization or for some miracles people decide that enough is enough REALLY and act positively instead of destructively, something almost never happened reading the history.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#188

Post by jillesvangurp »

locallost wrote: post #95

This is nothing. If you want to panic, check the futures markets for the next 2 quarters, especially France. So I think short term we are pretty screwed. But I think if you can produce electricity at 1/10 or even 1/20 of the price, wouldn't you be adding new capacity now? The only fast option are renewables, so my wild guess is that there will be so much new capacity added in the next years, the bottleneck will not b…

We're not screwed. We're just witnessing the accelerated death of the fossil fuel based power generation industry and it's making renewable power extremely lucrative. Prices are high because of gas prices. Except it's August and Europe is producing a lot of solar power and a fair bit of wind power. That's why there are no blackouts. There is no power shortage; just a gas shortage. Europe has plenty of reserves to generate power. It's just not going to be cheap to use those reserves. The current crisis is not a capacity crisis but a fuel cost crisis. Anybody who was complacent about renewables is going to be paying the price for that this winter. Anybody who wasn't is going to reap the rewards.

High prices for electricity and no production cost for renewables basically means whomever produces using that is making a lot of money right now. More than 5x of what they could reasonably expect normally. Probably closer to 10x. That's great news because that will be invested in even more renewable power. Solar and wind are the closest thing to a perpetuum mobile that you can get right now.

Electricity prices are high because all the gas and coal production is being kept at a minimum rate because of the high cost of fuel. Companies still in the business of burning that have to pay such high prices for fuel that it's cheaper for them to shut down operations. Unless they are absolutely needed in which case they'll charge for the fuel cost of course.

However, most of Europe is relying on renewables and topping up gas supplies for the winter instead. E.g. Germany hit their 80% reserves target ahead of schedule a few days ago, So, any gas plant that doesn't absolutely have to be on right now has probably been idling for months. No reason to turn those on.

The reason France has a tough few quarters ahead is that quite a few of their aging nuclear power plants are down for maintenance right now. They'll be importing power from abroad and probably at high rates. A perfect little storm of overdue maintenance and an international gas/oil market that suddenly shifted. They'll be fine. But it will cost them.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#189

Post by legulere »

tuukkah wrote: post #172
Tenoke wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should I panic enough in Germany to be wise to consider moving away? Where as a European?

To a house that is not heated by direct electricity (nor by gas), or to one where you have installed some other source of heating such as heat pumps or district heating.

What do you think the heat pump and district heating runs on? Heat pumps still need electricity and district heating is often using gas.

Re: Day ahead electricity prices for EU

#190

Post by vorpalhex »

pojzon wrote: post #175
pveierland wrote: post #50

Current spot price in northern Norway is €10.16/MWh, while it is €745.08/MWh in southern Norway (73x the price), largely due to limitations in transport networks between the electricity zones. The price in the northern zone is so low that some hydro plants have stopped producing electricity as they would be losing money at the current price level. https://www.skandiaenergi.no/dagens-spotpriser/ Electricity Maps has a…

Ive tried to explain this issue to EVs fanatics, but nobody listens. Anytime you mention energy transmision issues - you get total backlash. We wasted EU money on pointless stuff while we could have upgraded our transit cables etc.

California has to shut down their grid occasionally just because it's in such poor repair that wildfires are a risk. I can't imagine how they are going to handle everyone getting EVs.
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