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GeForce Now: A Review

whatever.scalzi.com

191–198 of 198 posts

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A man walks into a store, picks up a game, pays for it, and takes it home; he never agrees to a license or signs a contract. He puts it in the game console, it starts up, and he plays it, and still hasn't agreed to any license or contract. I'm not declaring that you're wrong, but I suspect these "publisher's wishlist" licenses and terms may not hold up in court in the event of someone violating those terms. Just beca…

If someone doesn't have a license to use it, then wouldn't using it be copyright infringement.

We may be mixing up our terms, when you say "license", I don't generally think of the same kind of "license" as would be implied for e.g. a paperback. I think it's implied we're talking about software-style licenses.

I think of a long, rambling contract with made-up terms and obligations you never agreed to at purchase time, EULA style.

So yes, you get a license-to-use-and-lend-and-resell with your purchase as you do with books, music, and movies, but the EULA and TOS type stuff are probably fiction, I think. I'm no expert, but afaik it's not well-tested legally, and first-sale doctrine counts for a lot.

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can discuss two things here, what will happen and what should happen. For the "should" part, I think it'd be great if software would somehow expire, and then become free software, as in, code and assets too. I'm not a lawyer or anything but as artwork goes public domain after a while, so should software and its assets. It would be great "for the people" so that the experience wouldn't go away as abandonwar…

I'll add to what should and what will happen a third category: what could happen. But first: The problem with public domain is that there's no legal requirement for the publisher to give it away once the copyright expires (if they are the sole possessor). If something is legally public domain but no one has a copy, then it doesn't matter. If we had a library of deposit (publishers legally have to provide a copy to e.…

The library plan sounds fantastic.

I don't think you're wrong with regards to past consumer rejection. I think people were now primed with the spread of internet and the SAAS / cloud culture that followed in the 2000s, then in the meantime smartphones happened, lootboxes / gacha became normal on phones then later in the wider gaming culture, music streaming gained steam and Netflix finally made a successful media streaming service... normalizing consumer behaviors which were previously alien to many consumers. But now the market is ripe for cloud gaming to become popular. Sometime in the 2010s maybe game passes on console also become a thing - the type of payment when as long as you hold the subscription, you have access to the downloaded game. I think that considering these changes in gaming and consumer behavior explain why cloud gaming is now acceptable enough to be profitable, or to be a thing at least.

Regarding Arma II and DayZ, and so on, I don't particularly like this type of thought experiment. I think if we allow the liberty, the opposite conclusion can also be drawn: think how much productive these people could have been if they haven't wasted their energy in these mods. Or what else could they have made - contributing to free software instead, or any other social good. And the ideas are also not original, I mean in general; the light bulb, the radio and the telephone all got invented independently in different parts of the world, so, Arma II being a cloud only game, we wouldn't have DayZ and so on, but we'd have something other that made battle royale a popular gaming phenomenon.

I think you're onto something with modders. I think local / non-cloud gaming will be alive as long as there are devices that run third party software without much issue. The games might not be very advanced or flashy, the AAA titles will surely go extract as much rent as possible, but I'm sure that the next Minecraft, Stardew Valley, or Teeworlds will get made, as these all began (or still are) passion projects of a single person, and sometimes, people just want to give. So I think passion projects will keep the local game alive - be it modding, an indie game or free software.

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is latency avoided? I've not paid attention to streaming games or looked how it works. If your mouse input needs to go via the internet to control the 3d character on screen, how is there not a noticeable lag compared to a local rendering of the game?

Partially it's modern speedy networks; but partially it's also the player. There are people who need (and people who believe they need) 165HZ or heck 240HZ screen, 8000Hz Mouse, and notice every millisecond of lag. And there are people like me and apparently Scalzi :-). My experience with GeforceNow was perfect. I'm sure somebody with better reflexes and more into competitive multiplayer would find it complete unacce…

Just measured, and I have 10-12ms network latency end to end, from my computer to the Geforce servers. There may be some fuzz factor and complications, but again, for me it's neglible.

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I own a game called "Project Rito". It's a VR prototype where your arms are wings and you use them to sail on updrafts, occasionally allowing yourself to drop freely to fire your bow. I just need to improve the graphics a bit as it's mostly place-holder stuff for now. It's not a great game(yet), but god's damnit it's mine! .... Wait, it's made in unity, I don't really own that game either, do I?

You're also using concepts and tradmarks from Zelda and the Youtube channel for "Project Rito" appears to be for somebody else's cosplay, so it sounds like you own a little slice of a game. I'd like to play it though. Maybe "Project Birdperson"? Nobody would name a character "Birdperson".

Heh, yeah, the name, much like most of the game, is place holder stuff at this point. I hope Nintendo won't sue me until I publish, if I ever even get that far!

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#195

You guys are walking into a trap. This is going to be way worse than movie streaming, and unlike movies, when one of these companies pulls a game you once loved and it's not available, there will be no pirates to save you, because the software is trapped in the cloud. The future may well be streaming-only. Mods will be greatly impacted eventually, with only sanctioned mods allowed to run in the cloud. There'll be no…

> P.S., thank god for indie developers who make games without input from accountants and psychiatrists who specialize in addiction, they may save us all yet.

Yes, I think indies (and AA studios before they inevitably get bought out) will always keep the art alive. Of course that means missing out on some types of games that are simply not feasible for smaller groups or without significant up front funding.

> There's also a glimmer of hope at gog.com where they still sell real games without DRM.

That is no longer true for all games on GOG unfortunately [0]. Similarly Steam does require games to have DRM once downloaded and there are many that you can just copy and run wherever you want (without a technical restriction anyways). I wouln't count on any distributor to have a significant effect on the keeping games clean.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24419237

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#196

I would urge people to try out Shadow. It’s a cloud based windows gaming machine that you remote connect to. It’s great. You can install anything you want.

I had to Ctrl/⌘ + F because I couldn't find anyone mentioning Shadow. Why is GeForce Now still more popular than Shadow, especially when Nvidia limits the games you are allowed to play.

I haven't plugged my local gaming PC into the wall in months. The future of Mac gaming for me is Shadow.

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#197
> My rural internet connection is 40mbps/sec down in theory — in practice it’s between 25 and 40 depending which second you poll it, and the speed is affected by whether someone is downstairs watching Netflix while I’m upstairs playing a graphics-intensive game.

I’m constantly surprised by how few ISPs have implemented CoDel or CAKE. While it does not fix actual packet loss, it solves basically everything else: inconsistent speeds due to some packets getting priority, bufferbloat, laggy streaming.

If I could hand people a router that just had an in port and out port and CoDel installed it would solve 90% of the problems. Unfortunately (for us) ISPs have done away with modems and instead gone for modem/router/wifi combo boxes which makes traffic shaping much much more complicated.

Re: GeForce Now: A Review

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my experience is that it's flawless and indistinguishable from native in twitch games like fortnite and counterstrike This is just your opinion and it's wrong for at least 50% of humans. Nobody with a mouse will find fortnite or cs playable with 40ms added lag. 40ms lag is higher than the mere 16.66ms you get from going from 60 FPS to 60 Hz vsync (that is, running the monitor at 60Hz and enabling vsync. it will be…

It's not 40ms of added latency. The chart can't be used like that. I agree 40ms would feel incredibly laggy, like 20fps laggy. That's not how GFN feels, it's perfectly smooth, more smooth than native hardware. Just look at any video of people moving around in gfn. Here's a random one I found. https://youtu.be/q-Fzkp-az9Q?t=154 The chart really only says it's more smooth than native hardware. Like think about it, if y…

The chart says there is a total latency on PC of 80ms. It's unplayable. 80ms is actual garbage. Comparing it to console works because consoles typically are garbage these days. FPS/TPS on console sucks. Yes, Geforce Now may be comparable to a console, because you're just running the PC version of the game remotely, and the PC version of games typically probably have less lag due to consoles sucking. Of course, Geforce Now is still back to the 80ms a console might get, that's still terrible.

> Like think about it, if you're comparing 16.6ms to 100+ then the game would be running at like 1fps and is completely useless.

Not how it works, you could have 2000ms of lag and still have a completely smooth game running at 500fps. But why are we talking about smoothness all of a sudden?

That youtube review is clickbait and bikesheds on some stupid detail like tree rendering distance on some certain scene. I don't think it even talked about input lag. He did state that cloud gaming being bad is a misconception because he feels like it's good, though. Also Genshin Impact is a laggy game. I have played it on a PC, and it's framelocked way down to 60FPS, and so it only uses a small fraction of CPU/GPU, and it's still so laggy you can't even aim right with the mouse with an aiming weapon like the longbow. Just moving around is tedious, which indeeds gives me that post 2000s console feel. The game with vsync off plays far worse than a misconfigured system. Even any FPS like UT or Quake with vsync on feel more responsive than Genshin Impact.

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