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Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

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Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#61

Post by xhkkffbf »

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

While I generally like the idea of city centers, I think that this kind of anti-car stuff comes off like wild-eyed propaganda. For instance, the title suggests that the places were built for cars alone, kind of like the garage where Jay Leno keeps his collection. No. The suburbs were built for people driving cars. Not just cars. People getting rides in cars, avoiding weather, sitting comfortably, transporting the handicapped and the infirm and the older folks. Car haters need to remember that most people love cars because they work in all kinds of weather and transport them to work or health care or entertainment etc.

As for the bit about human connection, that's kind of silly. Life is what you make of it. For every lonely suburbanite trapped in a house with a two-car garage, I can show you a lonely city dweller who doesn't even know the name of the people in the apartment down the hall. I've lived in NYC and that is VERY common.

I don't really like driving myself. I prefer to walk, or when the weather is good, to ride a bicycle. But I can easily understand why others want to buy a car. They're very useful and the car haters who deny this come across as fools or shills.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#62

Post by oldnetguy »

I lived in New York City my entire life and I am now wanting a house. I am tired of living in an apartment building. This idea that people live together communally within buildings or neighborhoods is very overrated.

I have lived in multiple apartments and never has there been a real community there. The building has one holiday party and out of 144 apartments maybe 15 people show up. The posts on the chat board that the building now provides is more about neighbors complaining about each other.

I know people who live in houses and they have more communal respect then the people who I have lived with within the various buildings I have lived.

I understand why people have houses, I just cannot afford one right now.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#63

Post by throwaway5959 »

boring_twenties wrote: post #4
skinnymuch wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t help people who work at small companies. They still get screwed by car focused society without proper work socializing.

Ha, so my friend recently accepted a "remote" job. Shortly after he started, they nixed that and started requiring everyone to come to the office most of the time. The best part is that no one from his team is in the office in his city. So now he has to commute 1.5h a day just to work remotely from the "office."

He should just quit. That’s ridiculous.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#64

Post by warning26 »

datadata wrote: post #53
ylhert wrote: post #9

The car has done so much damage to our world and most people are completely blind to it. Obesity, climate change, isolation/loneliness, excess deaths/injuries from collisions, out of control housing costs, can all be tied back in a major way to car centric society. And yet people will defend their car and the "convenience" of it like their life depends on it, and force it down the throats of everyone around them. Bog…

How would you tie housing costs to cars?

Easy, supply and demand. Before cars, dense housing was the norm, but cars popularized spreading everything out as much as possible so you have room for wide roads and lots of parking.

Less density -> less housing overall -> decreased supply -> increased prices

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#65

Post by xsmasher »

falcolas wrote: post #43
twblalock wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of Americans who are well-travelled and have seen world-class transit in Europe and Asia, and most of them still choose to live in suburbs. The average American wants to live in a detached house that they own. This does not lead to dense cities. It leads to sprawl, which is what we got because it’s what we want.

You're right - I do not want to live in dense cities. I did it for years, and hated it. I was happy when I was able to move out into a detached home where I can use speakers and not have to worry about a neighbor getting angry. It's only one neighbor out of the 6 I would share separating walls with, but one is all it takes.

If you could live in a detached home but the next block over had a restaurant or two and a small grocery, wouldn't that be pleasant?

Zoning that allows ONLY single-family detached housing, and no retail or business, forces car-dependency.

"Detached home or high-rise apartment in a city" is a false dichotomy.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#66

Post by legitster »

I love dense urban areas, but I'm not sure I buy the human connection angle. I've never felt so alone when living in cities. Something about constantly being surrounded by people makes you less likely to want to get to know them.

Now that I live a bit more rural, I've found myself much more likely to get to know people. It helps that things aren't always busy or packed, and I can linger a bit more and have more pleasant conversations.

YMMV.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#67

Post by mrpopo »

twblalock wrote: post #6

Most Americans want it to be that way, and that’s why it is that way. Zoning laws didn’t push people into a car lifestyle. Americans created those zoning laws because they like the car lifestyle and want to perpetuate it. The same is true for suburban zoning in general. People have not been tricked into this: this is what they want.

Most people want what they have been told to be desirable. No offense to free thinkers out there, but our mind is mostly shaped by our experiences in society.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#68

Post by pickovven »

jaywalk wrote: post #39
Invictus0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think that most Americans have not traveled enough to realize there is a better way. Only 30% of Americans even have a passport.

I've traveled to plenty of cities where many/most people don't own cars, in the US and Europe. I still have zero desire to live in such a city.

Cool. No one is forcing you to live in those places.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#69

Post by falcolas »

gernb wrote: post #32
kodah wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average American likely doesn't want a life without cars. That seems to be an HN obsession seemingly (my perception) fueled by people who have lived and stayed in very dense urban areas. Creating larger spaces that aren't made for cars is great, but people will still need long-range individual transportation.

That's fine. They just need to start paying for their externities and stop relying on being subsidized by the dense urban areas. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI

They are. Via the same mechanisms - taxes paid to the county, who maintains that property. Plus, suburbanites bring a lot of money into the cities, even though they don't live there.

Cities could incorporate suburbs into their boundaries, yet cities don't want to do that, because despite griping about their lack of paying city taxes, they don't want to pay to maintain/manage those spaces.

I really believe the "suburbs cost cities money" statement is overplayed. Between county taxes (which feed back into the cities in those counties) and HOA (for neighborhood maintenance), they are paying for themselves.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#70

Post by [deleted] »

spamizbad wrote: post #42

I always thought it was strange when people would say "The automobile represent freedom". I grew up in a "streetcar suburb" and later moved to a big city. So for me, cars were always viewed as an expensive annoyance you might need depending on your life circumstances, but certainly not something you'd go out of your way to buy unless you needed it. But as I got older and lived briefly in a suburb of Houston TX it fin…

[deleted]
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