Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection • Hacker News Board

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#41

Post by dont__panic » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #28

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

I honestly think that most Americans have not traveled enough to realize there is a better way. Only 30% of Americans even have a passport.

Most of my friends -- a spread of PhDs, teachers, well-off tech workers, and blue collar workers -- have barely left the USA. I really enjoyed the time I spent in the UK for a college semester. It permanently ruined the US city experience for me -- even NYC is not as walkable as the small-ish city I lived in.

When my friends do leave the USA, it seems to largely land them at resorts, or guided tours, or other "on rails" tourist experiences that disconnect them from the day-to-day life of people who live in those places. Meanwhile I visit cities to explore on foot. I plan on doing some European bike tours soon to experience some of the small towns and countryside that I've previously missed out on.

Considering how much my friends and family love the walking and public transit experience at Disney World, I wonder how much they would enjoy just walking and taking public transit around other cities around the world. It's really not that different.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#42

Post by spamizbad » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:15 PM UTC

I always thought it was strange when people would say "The automobile represent freedom". I grew up in a "streetcar suburb" and later moved to a big city. So for me, cars were always viewed as an expensive annoyance you might need depending on your life circumstances, but certainly not something you'd go out of your way to buy unless you needed it.

But as I got older and lived briefly in a suburb of Houston TX it finally clicked: the way so many subdivisions are planned you are quite literally trapped inside your subdivision unless you have a vehicle. Need to buy groceries? Get to school? Go hang out with friends? You need a car. You aren't heading anywhere interesting without one.

So I get why people have a romanic idea of the automobile, but that romance is a side-effect of poor urban planning.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#43

Post by falcolas » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

twblalock wrote: post #13

JKCalhoun wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too would like the car lifestyle ... from 1950. Sadly, we have created a monster. I suspect many Americans now don't even know what a community without cars would look like, that it could even work at all.

I know a lot of Americans who are well-travelled and have seen world-class transit in Europe and Asia, and most of them still choose to live in suburbs. The average American wants to live in a detached house that they own. This does not lead to dense cities. It leads to sprawl, which is what we got because it’s what we want.

You're right - I do not want to live in dense cities. I did it for years, and hated it. I was happy when I was able to move out into a detached home where I can use speakers and not have to worry about a neighbor getting angry.

It's only one neighbor out of the 6 I would share separating walls with, but one is all it takes.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#44

Post by kmeisthax » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

user3939382 wrote: post #15

Search YouTube for “stroad” (edit spelling) there’s a guy that’s very passionate about this topic with a lot of high quality videos on it.

"Stroad" will get you what you want.

The channels you are thinking of are probably either Not Just Bikes, Strong Towns, or Adam Something.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#45

Post by dont__panic » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #39

Invictus0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think that most Americans have not traveled enough to realize there is a better way. Only 30% of Americans even have a passport.

I've traveled to plenty of cities where many/most people don't own cars, in the US and Europe. I still have zero desire to live in such a city.

Where in the US have you visited where many or most people don't own cars? In the USA, there is one such city -- NYC -- where MOST residents don't own a car. Every other city has over 90% car ownership.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#46

Post by zeristor » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:16 PM UTC

ylhert wrote: post #9

The car has done so much damage to our world and most people are completely blind to it. Obesity, climate change, isolation/loneliness, excess deaths/injuries from collisions, out of control housing costs, can all be tied back in a major way to car centric society. And yet people will defend their car and the "convenience" of it like their life depends on it, and force it down the throats of everyone around them. Bog…

Maybe this is the great filter as to why we don't see any Extraterrestrial Civilisations, once they get to the 'car' they wither.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#47

Post by seabrookmx » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #36

JKCalhoun wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too would like the car lifestyle ... from 1950. Sadly, we have created a monster. I suspect many Americans now don't even know what a community without cars would look like, that it could even work at all.

Frankly, I'm not sure it would work. The population of the US is more than double what it was in 1950. I personally don't want to live in a dense population area - it's overwhelming, panic inducing, yet still somehow lonely. So what would a car-less community I could tolerate look like? Probably a lot like it does right now, just with more commercial entities within a mile or two of my home. It would also be a lot ha…

Making public transit better would also really help.

Then you can access those things 10m away in a similar amount of time.

For large items you'd use a car or pickup for, businesses would adapt by offering delivery.

It's definitely possible, but the infrastructure investment would be gargantuan.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#48

Post by ErikVandeWater » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #35

ErikVandeWater wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't influence zoning policy or understand it at all.

True but not quite accurate. Locals influence zoning laws when they speak at city/town council meetings and go door to door trying to influence or get the support of their neighbors for them. It’s not “most” voters: but only in the sense that that is true for all public policy. Zoning isn’t special.

My entire point is that it is not the majority.

> Zoning isn’t special.

twblalock is acting like zoning is special though.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#49

Post by yesUgotit » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

Invictus0 wrote: post #28

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

I honestly think that most Americans have not traveled enough to realize there is a better way. Only 30% of Americans even have a passport.

No post body was provided.

Re: Too many Americans live in places built for cars – not for human connection

#50

Post by jgwil2 » Thu, Aug 25, 2022, 3:18 PM UTC

dont__panic wrote: post #22

I've seen so much anti-car, pro-walkability, pro-transit, pro-bikeability sentiment online recently. I really hope this is proof of the younger generations -- Millenials, Zoomers, and younger folks even -- waking up to the idea that the USA in particular has become a toxic environment thanks to cars. WFH was a big wakeup call, I think -- once you step away from the commute for a year or two, trying to sit in traffic…

> I'd rather not learn a whole new language and leave my family and friends so far behind

You could live in New York, Boston, DC, Chicago, or other dense cities with decent transit options without leaving the US entirely. It is certainly not impossible to live in the US without a car.

EDIT: not really sure why this is downvoted. Just taking OP's statement that they would prefer not to uproot their whole life at face value. I have lived without a car in both the US and Europe, so I promise it can be done.