So if one of these subscription features breaks, the manufacturer is paying the full cost of repairs, right? Or is the consumer still on the hook for that even though they're "subscribing" to the feature?
Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
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Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#172I wonder how long it will take before aftermarket shops appear that can crack and activate all those modules.
Void warranty and assume road safety risks that the auto maker would traditionally be responsible for.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
> This is for example how CPUs and GPUs are sold This is not true. They are binned by capability, and sold at different price points. I don't mind that idea - if it turned out installing heated seats failed in say... 28% of installations, fine - charge me more for a model with functioning heated seats. Instead - this is introducing a fixed, recurring charge, and undermining the concept of ownership. That heated seat…
> This is not true. They are binned by capability, and sold at different price points.
That's only for the very high yield ones which get sold for specific computing purposes. The GPUs you buy at the store are already from the shit pile. Within that shit pile though, they all have exactly the same amount of transistors in there usually across different versions of the same product line, and if you buy the highest end version you get use of all of the transistors, if not you don't - but they are still there.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#174I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…
Heated car seats actually makes sense to put on a subscription model for customers.
It means that those of us in generally warm states like CA can opt-in to heated seats for the month or two we spend doing winter sports, and just pay for that usage, instead of paying a few thousand upfront for the heated seat package.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
maybe this is supposed to make me feel better, but installing features that will never be used (e.g. heating elements in the seats) just makes me mad re: waste. It's not a digital asset that costs nothing to produce/host/sustain. These are raw materials, refined, that will someday end up in a landfill.
I agree there is waste, but if you buy into the whole capitalist schpiel, if the cost of production is lower, it's still better. This obviously externalizes environmental impacts which the current trend of eco-politics is trying to address with many ideas around taxing carbon output and other ways of accounting for the external effects comes into play. I assume if the world is able to correctly implement such a system we'd get rid of these aberrations where sometimes chucking a bunch of useless stuff into a product, or producing it in the other side of the world ends up "making sense" - because it only "makes sense" if you don't account for all the trash you leave behind you.
I'm optimist though, I see the discourse moving in this direction and many countries starting to investigate properly how to implement these ideas from the 70's.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#176I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…
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Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
> This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. But th…
I believe BMW did offer this option, at least for some of the features. Heated seats were $450 or so, or $18/mo.
It would be ironic if manufacturers were roasted for offering more options for payment rather than fewer.
I would not feel this way if the one-time cost were higher than before (I think $500 is about standard), or if purchases were locked to the original purchaser. And I recognize that some of these examples are of companies that do not offer one-time options.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#178I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
Huh? The logic makes sense, except for the "recurring payment" part. This has been done for years in manufacturing, but there is no necessity for it to be a recurring payment. It could just as easily be a one time payment to upgrade your car to have heated seats(really, just the dealership flipping a bit in some config somewhere, or the manufacturer hardcoding the bit one way or the other as it rolls off the assembly line).
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
So this means the manufacturer can conveniently side step doctrine of first sale, and continue generating revenue from secondary sales at absolutely no cost to themselves. Pretty fun for them. Rent seeking usually is. Pretty fucking terrible for everyone else. Perfect case of market failure, and an ideal target for regulation. This kind of thing genuinely triggers disgust for me. Personally - I will NEVER buy from th…
It seems better for second-hand sales though? You can sell your car as having heated seats available even if you never paid for them or used them. And you can sell to buyers who both want heated seats and those that don't. Buyers who don't want them don't have to waste money on them.
And buyers that do want heated seats, do need to waste money on them. Or more realistically, pay the one time fee to an independent shop to fix the problem.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems better for second-hand sales though? You can sell your car as having heated seats available even if you never paid for them or used them. And you can sell to buyers who both want heated seats and those that don't. Buyers who don't want them don't have to waste money on them.
And buyers that do want heated seats, do need to waste money on them. Or more realistically, pay the one time fee to an independent shop to fix the problem.
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