Vote with your wallet. Do not purchase any car with these "features"
Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
121–130 of 215 posts
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#122I can somewhat understand the logic of charging me a recurring fee for a service that costs the provider a recurring cost, gets regular improvements, and where data is maintained. TV/sat radio? Ok (not that I would buy that). Remote tracking / start? Why not. Internet access in the car? Sure. Satellite maps with updates? Maybe. I would hope that given how much you charge me for the product, these come included, but M…
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
> This is for example how CPUs and GPUs are sold
This is not true. They are binned by capability, and sold at different price points.
I don't mind that idea - if it turned out installing heated seats failed in say... 28% of installations, fine - charge me more for a model with functioning heated seats.
Instead - this is introducing a fixed, recurring charge, and undermining the concept of ownership. That heated seat has zero cost for the manufacturer after installation, and that should be reflected in the costs to the consumer.
I find this a pretty un-ethical (appalling - really) attack on ownership, and long term, a way to undermine the used market for these goods (attack on doctrine of first sale).
Frankly - I think this should absolutely be targeted with regulation. This is literally rent-seeking, with no potential upside.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#123Get that Monthly Recurring Revenue BAYBEEE. If you have MRR, you're a tech company, not a dirty smelly thing manufacturer, and Wall Street might love you. It's kind of funny that the article says > "But it’s not just BMW: industry watchers and consumer advocates warn that the nickel-and-diming threatens to become standard as automakers chase a recurring revenue model pioneered by Elon Musk’s Tesla." GM launched OnSta…
With Tesla, the recurring revenue model makes sense. You get features that can consume considerable bandwidth and mobile data, things that can have considerable cost to Tesla. People usually cite the music streaming and satellite maps, but you also get Netflix, YouTube, and a dozen other video streaming services. I don't use those video streaming services often in my car (usually just when waiting for a table at a re…
Yes, I think it is vital to understand which subscriptions people are willing to pay for.
People are most willing to pay for things where they understand that there is an underlying cost to providing the service, and where they derive value from updates or ongoing service. The service should also be provided at a competitive price - for example you cannot charge for navigation in most cases because people can use free nav services (Google Maps etc)
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is less to do with blackmail than to do with optimising manufacturing. It is cheaper for manufacurers to produce all the cars with the same heated seats, but not allow you to use them if you don't pay the recurring charge (as long as enough % of customers opt-in), than to manufacture two versions of the car, one with the seats and one without, just so that you can feel like you aren't being blackmailed. You shou…
maybe this is supposed to make me feel better, but installing features that will never be used (e.g. heating elements in the seats) just makes me mad re: waste. It's not a digital asset that costs nothing to produce/host/sustain. These are raw materials, refined, that will someday end up in a landfill.
yeah, the grandparent comment is utterly absurd. if it's cheaper for them to make, then they're making it an upsell even though it could be a standard feature. and if that's happening, but no competitor is coming along to take advantage of this cost situation and standardize the upsell, then there's something wrong with the market.
this subscription approach is just rent-seeking behavior, which is another sign that there's something wrong with the market.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#125How long until home appliance companies charges you a monthly fee for feature like "steam wash" or ice cube machine on a fridge?
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#126The smarter cars get, the worse they are for consumer rights and Privacy. Unfortunately its a general trend, everything that is getting "smartified" is becoming an anti consumer black box, and If you care about your privacy or owning the device you bought, you are out of luck. It happened with TVs, and now its coming for cars too, there might be options now but they won't last long, is there a dumb TV in your local s…
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I don't feel spied on, I and everyone else is being spied on.
Its a fact, not a feeling, proven by Snowden who sacrificed his life so the people can now about what really is going on.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because they’re not lowering the initial purchase price of the car to compensate, you’re effectively paying a lot more for what are basic features in a modern car. I wouldn’t object to a model where I was charged a lot of money for a subscription in exchange for lowering the up front cost of the car. But nickel-and-diming me for features like heated seats forever after I have already paid a huge price for the car? It…
Yeah they’re trying to get as much money as possible from you. They’re a business - that’s their reason for existing. When it’s a luxury good I can’t see any ethical issue in that. When I ask for a pay rise for doing the same job from my employer am I being unethical?
> When I ask for a pay rise for doing the same job from my employer am I being unethical?
You're generally not doing the same job year over year. Your roles and responsibilities grow and evolve the longer you are there, so it makes sense that your pay would also grow with you.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#128This just means that circumvention will be an lucrative industry. For heated seats, someone will add a bypass that just adds a physical switch that is spliced directly somewhere between a power source and the actual heating element. Just have to figure out an aesthetic place to mount it. The only downside being, in this case you can't control it via an aPp or through the tablet that replaced the actual console contro…
I think a much bigger downside would be its effect on the price of your insurance. I can't speak for any other country but in the UK insurers have a reputation for being petty about modifications. Even something as minor as a DIY heated seat switch would have to be declared to your insurer who could refuse to cover you or charge a silly premium for cover.
That's a U(k) problem not a me problem. Here people put their cheap base model pick up truck on the highest, cheapest, Chinese lift kit that money can buy with no real effect on the price of their premium. You only pay more when you want to insure the cost of the replacement of your modified parts, which very few people are going to bother doing.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
… the profit margin is 100% no?
Whoops, you're right, I meant markup instead of margin. Fixed now. (For the curious, margin is (revenue-cost)/revenue, and markup is (revenue-cost)/cost.)
Why is the cost zero? They have to cover the cost of making the car.
Re: Auto giants like BMW, GM and Toyota make drivers ‘subscribe’ for basic features
#130How does this fit with "right to repair"?
Besides the recurring revenue motivation, can this be pretext for restricting right to repair?