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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#241

Post by lrvick »

CharlesW wrote: post #30
lrvick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is Linux but it has nowhere close to the fully open source freedom of a traditional Linux workstation. This is why I carry a tiny linux laptop.

Phones are not PCs/general-purpose computers. Do you want your TV to be a general purpose computer as well? (Having put my family through a Media Center PC and TV remotes with keyboards/trackpads for several years, I don't recommend it.)

Actually yes. All my TVs have attached PCs and run kodi, steam, etc on Ubuntu so I can do whatever I want on them. All my remotes have an airmouse and small keyboard.

We love it. When we want to look up something we see in a video we just open a browser. We also use them to order food etc. No proprietary software required.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#242

Post by lrvick »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #107
lrvick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is Linux but it has nowhere close to the fully open source freedom of a traditional Linux workstation. This is why I carry a tiny linux laptop.

which tiny linux laptop? I am in the market, especially if it can survive jogging in backpack!

I carry a GPD Pocket in a leg bag. Fantastic for conferences etc. No need for a backpack.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#243

Post by Legogris »

xorcist wrote: post #233
Legogris wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I tried (granted, years ago), BankID was still relatively straight-forward to set up and use on a PC. Not all sites support the flow, though. Authorities should also still accept alternatives like Freja (if there's anything they won't close the door on it's making it straightforward to pay your taxes, I guess). I'm far from happy wit the situation and would prefer that authorities take an open standards-app…

But is it straight-forward to set up on any PC, or just those locked down with proprietary single vendor controlled software? In the latter case, it is not in any way better than a proprietary phone. In practice probably worse, since it is easier and cheaper to keep an extra phone around.

Was running it fine on Linux IIRC (maybe look it up if you're actually interested?), but again, long time ago so things may have changed.

EDIT: Things seem to have deteriorated quite a bit and no major improvement in sight. Maybe not a surprise.

https://www.monperrus.net/martin/bankid-linux

https://www.sweclockers.com/forum/trad/1592956-bankid-pa-lin...

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#244

Post by lrvick »

nine_k wrote: post #103
realusername wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phones are not PCs/general-purpose computers. That's just the opinion of the manufacturer, we don't have to agree. Phones have banking and government apps, they are general purpose computers from their usage alread

If something currently serves as a general-purpose computer for most people, it's an (Android) phone. It's affordable, it has integrated graphics, video, audio, trackpad, and keyboard, it has excellent networking, it's easily programmable and has a plethora of apps for all cases. It does not have a built-in Basic-like language for immediate fiddling; this is sad, of course.

If you do not mind running an endless pile of proprietary software and granting several third parties the right to track you and have remote root access to your device via hundreds of binary blobs, then Android is great. Even CalyxOS and GrapheneOS cannot escape the hell that is the vendor partition. Not to mention binary blobs from Qualcomm etc that target particular kernel versions which guarantee your hardware will be a brick in 2-4 years when it is no longer possible to use modern kernels because Qualcomm moved on to new chipsets and abandoned the last gen.

I spent the better part of a year doing Android OS dev only to conclude there just is no way to trust it or make it sustainable.

The Librem 5, Pinephone, and the Precursor are shaping up to be decent options. For now no phone at all suits me fine.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#245

Post by lrvick »

z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

Carry plastic ID. Carry cash.

I do not know any first world country that has a constitution that requires you accept the terms of service of Apple or Google to function as a citizen.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#246

Post by lrvick »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #123
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

"the ID monopoly and Payment monopoly refuse to support other operating systems" This is my issue. I am commonly hearing people ask "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices. This is scary. I love the idea of having an alternative to iOS and Android. But I also need to function within society. This shouldn't be a choice.

iOS or Android is a false dichotomy.

I run a b2b tech company from Silicon Valley and do not have a phone at all. I carry cash, plastic ID, a paper vaccine card, etc.

Restaurants push QR codes in my face and I explain I do not own a phone, and they never fail to produce a paper menu somehow. Restaurants that default to paper menus are generally classier and get more of my business anyway.

I arrange to meet people at places and show up on time. I navigate by writing down directions and paying attention to my surroundings.

A couple times I have had trouble with concerts not wanting to let me in without some nonsense ticket app. I go to the will call booth, explain I do not have a phone. They find a way to print me passes every time.

I function in society just fine.

Do not let people discriminate against you for what software you wish to use, or not use. Nothing in our constitution mandates you accept the terms of service of Apple or Google.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#247

Post by Hublium »

squarefoot wrote: post #192
_carbyau_ wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crazy thing was during COVID everyone seemed to launch an app - iOS or Android. What happened to websites? Did they suddenly become impossible to secure or communicate with?

I have a dumb phone (Nokia 8110 4G) that I wouldn't trade with the latest iOS/Android model, and during Covid restrictions I downloaded and printed the pass at home with no problems. I also pay a small fee to my bank so I can keep using SMSs for transaction confirmations instead of surrendering to their app. Also using SMSs with PayPal and a few other online services. The day they force me to use smartphones which, p…

EU regulations now forbid SMS-based authentication. I tried explaining to the bank clerk several times how I am not using the Google Play Store but it was only when I held my Nokia "dumb phone" in their face that they gave me a hardware token generator (for free actually!).

For context, I use a Nokia 8110 and a LineageOS device.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#248

Post by dannymi »

rrdharan wrote: post #106
notmyaccountt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google created an Android userspace that requires Google services to do anything meaningful. This violates everything Linux stands for.

Who decides what "Linux" stands for? Linus? RMS? "The community"?

Linux is a trademark owned by Linus Torvalds. So Linus decides.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#249

Post by GekkePrutser »

bitwize wrote: post #85
realusername wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Phones are not PCs/general-purpose computers. That's just the opinion of the manufacturer, we don't have to agree. Phones have banking and government apps, they are general purpose computers from their usage alread

Bankers and governments don't want your phone to be a general purpose computer. That's why you can't run your banking app on a rooted phone. From a security standpoint, "general purpose computing" is really just "arbitrary code execution" -- generally a bad thing. We are approaching the sunset of general purpose computing in the consumer space. There's nothing you can do. Accept it and move on.

> We are approaching the sunset of general purpose computing in the consumer space. There's nothing you can do. Accept it and move on

I agree that governments and big business (not just banks, think about media services with DRM) don't want us to have full control of our computers for many reasons.

I disagree we just have to accept it though. I will keep fighting that forever.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#250

Post by axytol »

dredmorbius wrote: post #66
orangepurple wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Termux is awesome but the native environment is suffocating. I didn't even bother with Termux utilities after one hour of messing around. I went straight for the Arch Linux ARM proot environment and it contains ALL of the Arch Linux utilities. For example you will never get scipy to compile in normal Termux because you can't reasonably get a compatible Fortran compiler built and configured. Arch Linux ARM is the best…

Suffocating for lack of packages? I'll note that Termux has about 1/3 the package count of RHEL / CentOS. It's not everything, but for a mobile distro, it's quite good. That said: 1. Thanks for the Arch suggestion. I'll take a look at that. Root required? 2. Even with a full-fledged distro installed , if you're running unrooted Android you're still grossly crippled by the overarching (so to speak) Android system in t…

Since they mentioned proot, that won't require a rooted device, see: https://proot-me.github.io/

I was also able to get a decent Ubuntu distribution including a desktop environment running on a non-rooted device, even got Blender to render the popular BMW demo, though that took a while.

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