Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity • Hacker News Board

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#121

Post by froh » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 9:56 AM UTC

hawski wrote: post #105

Temporary_31337 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even seen a Smart car or a Toyota Aigo which has all the required safety parts? So tell us exactly which safety parts are so huge again ?

At the same time Toyota Aygo is no longer produced. There is now a Toyota Aygo X - a crossover/mini-suv. From what I have read companies stopped producing most of those smallest cars, because to make good margins within what is required by law in terms of safety and CO2 emissions it does not make much sense to produce small cheap cars anymore.

where did you hear that from?

The A-Segment is well alive and thriving: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-segment

What I see instead is very small electric vehicles entering the market from new manufacturers --- the market entry hurdle was not the vehicle safety, it was mastering the EURO-6,7,8 and California environmental norms with such a small engine.

I'd love to get one of those, or their van equivalents, rather, alas they're rarely exported outside Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#122

Post by goethes_kind » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 9:58 AM UTC

Large personal vehicles should just be banned in cities. People abused the system to such an extent that now it is a matter of infringing on other people's right to personal safety not to mention the unnecessary pollution and traffic congestion. I do not want to discuss the specifics but it would be great if for example cities only allowed KEI cars or a similar concept.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#123

Post by johnwalkr » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:00 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #100

jbay808 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrian visibility is also compromised. My SO is not a tall person. We've tested - she's quite invisible standing in front of these trucks and SUVs, because their front hood is so high and square. A small child would be impossible to see even some meters away. Worse if the driver of the vehicle is not tall.

A complaint I have and I've heard from others is the airbags in the A pillars are a menace to pedestrians because they block the drivers view.

Yes, cyclists too. When approaching an intersection which is not at right angles, it can be especially dangerous for cyclists when the speed of the car and cyclist is just right for the cyclist to be obscured for a long period of time. [1]

I also noticed when driving a certain Kei car in Japan with no a-pillar airbags and a so-called “split” or “double” a-pillar with a window between 2 skinny pillars, that the visibility is so much better. It feels great when you realize you don’t need to move your head around at all to see past them, the parallax affect of having 2 eyes makes them basically disappear. [2]

[1]https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/12/02/study-diagonal-inters...

[2]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu_Tanto#/media/File%3...

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#124

Post by bbarn » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

sonofhans wrote: post #3

> Findings suggest larger vehicles are involved in pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes with more severe injuries that result in higher hospital charges. I've commuted 10s of thousands of miles by bike the last 30 years, mostly in an urban environment. This doesn't surprise me. I can't read the whole article, and the excerpt doesn't offer any data or speculation about the causes of this. So, with some experience, I'll…

I too have primarily commuted in city traffic by bike for decades until recently (moved to an island). I've been hit by both cars and trucks.

Back home I have two VW cars - a golf, and an Atlas. The Atlas has far superior visibility, is equipped with proximity sensors all around, lights on mirrors that warn of potential blind spot vehicles... I feel much more confident I won't injure a fellow cyclist driving that car than the golf. It also ferries all of my wife and my friends' bikes to distant races very well.

I think you can find any two single cars that prove one way or the other that visibility is worse. In general though one of the selling points of larger vehicles in increased visibility. Now let's just get rid of the "cross over" which seems to have all of the down sides of both.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#125

Post by globular-toast » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:05 AM UTC

choeger wrote: post #117

The sad thing is that at least some part of the growth of vehicles on the road is because few people can afford to own (and park) multiple cars or other vehicles larger than a bike. I have to move 3 kids and 2 adults regularly over longer distances, so I am pretty much constrained to a van (say a VW T7). But unfortunately, I cannot afford to accompany this expensive car with a smaller, preferrably electric, vehicle.…

A VW Golf from the 70s could fit two adults and three children. Or you could rent the van when you really need it.

The trouble is when a society accepts non-sustainable solutions it's very difficult to go back to anything remotely sustainable as any technological progress is always expected to deliver "more". It also leads to people thinking their ridiculous lifestyles are baseline necessity when, in fact, they could be happy with a whole lot less.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#126

Post by gadders » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:13 AM UTC

timellis-smith wrote: post #81

donw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big problem -- pun intended -- is that vehicles are de facto required by law to be huge. Imagine if we had cars that were built like cars from the 80s -- smaller, lightweight, tons of visibility, minimal equipment -- but with modern engine technology and a few of the electronics that don't add much weight, but add a ton of functionality (like 360-degree cameras). I'll take the road noise, less interior comfort, a…

I live in the UK, and the last car I bought was a SEAT Ibiza with a 3 cylinder 1 litre engine. I get 4.5l/100km or 52 mpg on long trips. 98% of the time my engine does under 2500 rpm. I have absolutely no need of anything bigger and my car has all the comforts I require. I was also able to buy it for cash. I've never quite understood the desire to own a large car with all its concomitant costs.

How large is your family?

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#127

Post by goethes_kind » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:15 AM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #125

choeger wrote: post #117

The sad thing is that at least some part of the growth of vehicles on the road is because few people can afford to own (and park) multiple cars or other vehicles larger than a bike. I have to move 3 kids and 2 adults regularly over longer distances, so I am pretty much constrained to a van (say a VW T7). But unfortunately, I cannot afford to accompany this expensive car with a smaller, preferrably electric, vehicle.…

A VW Golf from the 70s could fit two adults and three children. Or you could rent the van when you really need it. The trouble is when a society accepts non-sustainable solutions it's very difficult to go back to anything remotely sustainable as any technological progress is always expected to deliver "more". It also leads to people thinking their ridiculous lifestyles are baseline necessity when, in fact, they could…

Exactly. Without judging the OP (I am also looking at buying a van (although I would not drive it regularly in the city)) it is a matter of luxury rather than necessity.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#128

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:26 AM UTC

donw wrote: post #28

yboris wrote: post #14

Exactly on topic: a philosophy paper " Vehicles and Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked? " by Douglas Husak. Author argues that because of the high crash incompatibility with other vehicles (and pedestrians), SUV driving is immoral - imposing an oversized amount of harm to others with no proportional safety for self. https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447

The big problem -- pun intended -- is that vehicles are de facto required by law to be huge. Imagine if we had cars that were built like cars from the 80s -- smaller, lightweight, tons of visibility, minimal equipment -- but with modern engine technology and a few of the electronics that don't add much weight, but add a ton of functionality (like 360-degree cameras). I'll take the road noise, less interior comfort, a…

Modern sedans are way smaller than the sedans of the 80's: Have you seen a Ford Crown Vic from that time frame - or driven one? (my dad had an 85, and was the first car that I was allowed to use).

Modern cars aren't required to be huge, in other words.

Car companies profit on SUV's more than smaller cars, though, so that's what they push. It helps that they are popular - which is realistically what has happened to the Ford Ranger. Larger bodies are more popular.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#129

Post by Chris2048 » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #49

emmelaich wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with your speculation. Here's another one. Even WHEN THE DRIVER sees you, some subconsciously ignore you. I'v had people look straight at me, keep driving then looking shocked when they finally realise and hit the brakes. I can only surmise they perceive traffic in terms of threats. When you're in a bigger car, threats are reduced.

There's that famous video of people dancing, where a person in a gorilla suit enters and leaves the action, and at the end, people don't remember seeing the gorilla. I think drivers are creatures of habit, especially in heavy traffic on a familiar route such as their daily work commute. They are not really in complete control of their cars -- certainly if traffic is heavy enough that nobody is following at a safe dis…

According to the Gorilla study:

> failure to attend to it while engaged in the difficult task of counting passes of the ball

I'm not sure how this applies to commuting, except when the driver is attentively looking at other cars.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#130

Post by Broken_Hippo » Wed, Aug 24, 2022, 10:33 AM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #125

choeger wrote: post #117

The sad thing is that at least some part of the growth of vehicles on the road is because few people can afford to own (and park) multiple cars or other vehicles larger than a bike. I have to move 3 kids and 2 adults regularly over longer distances, so I am pretty much constrained to a van (say a VW T7). But unfortunately, I cannot afford to accompany this expensive car with a smaller, preferrably electric, vehicle.…

A VW Golf from the 70s could fit two adults and three children. Or you could rent the van when you really need it. The trouble is when a society accepts non-sustainable solutions it's very difficult to go back to anything remotely sustainable as any technological progress is always expected to deliver "more". It also leads to people thinking their ridiculous lifestyles are baseline necessity when, in fact, they could…

Sure, but so could a compact hatchback from the 80s.

The issue is this: Car seat and booster seat laws in the US have changed (I don't know what they are where I live, as I don't have kids. Sister in the US does, though). If you spaced your children 3 years apart, you could easily have 3 car or booster seats in the car, which means your back seat needs to be even larger. The VW golf from the 70s probably couldn't fit 3 booster/car seats, and might struggle with the two youngest using them while the oldest just gets smashed in the middle. Hopefully they aren't large for their age.