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Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

sciencedirect.com

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Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#11

Post by bobthepanda »

sonofhans wrote: post #3

> Findings suggest larger vehicles are involved in pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes with more severe injuries that result in higher hospital charges. I've commuted 10s of thousands of miles by bike the last 30 years, mostly in an urban environment. This doesn't surprise me. I can't read the whole article, and the excerpt doesn't offer any data or speculation about the causes of this. So, with some experience, I'll…

A direct hit is likely, but even worse is a higher possibility of getting knocked under the vehicle and towards the wheels.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#13

Post by jwalton »

elihu wrote: post #7

Something I've wondered about is how do some of the newer vehicle designs fare when it comes to pedestrian safety? Presumably getting hit by a Tesla Cybertruck or Canoo Lifestyle Vehicle would be pretty bad, but are they just as bad as a giant pickup truck? My intuition says yeah, probably. But there might be some nuance, like maybe the Canoo has better-than-average visibility so hitting pedestrians is less likely. I…

They had some like this in 1939: https://youtu.be/LlyEIaRw010

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#14

Post by yboris »

Exactly on topic: a philosophy paper "Vehicles and Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked?" by Douglas Husak. Author argues that because of the high crash incompatibility with other vehicles (and pedestrians), SUV driving is immoral - imposing an oversized amount of harm to others with no proportional safety for self.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#15

Post by alwayslikethis »

Nick87633 wrote: post #8
nerdponx wrote: post #2

This article is a great example of how correlation might be suggestive of causation, but is not itself causation. Are pickup trucks inherently more dangerous than other vehicles? Or are pickup truck drivers more dangerous than other drivers? Or are pickup trucks more likely to be driving on more-dangerous roads than on less-dangerous roads? Unfortunately I wasn't able to read the article due to the paywall, but I did…

I've never seen a Camry roll coal on a bicyclist but I've seen it half a dozen times by pickup truck drivers

Rolling coal generally requires diesel engines (the smoke is from partially burned diesel). Gasoline is much easier to burn and I imagine it would be rather hard to modify a gasoline car to produce black smoke.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#16

Post by mrwh »

nerdponx wrote: post #2

This article is a great example of how correlation might be suggestive of causation, but is not itself causation. Are pickup trucks inherently more dangerous than other vehicles? Or are pickup truck drivers more dangerous than other drivers? Or are pickup trucks more likely to be driving on more-dangerous roads than on less-dangerous roads? Unfortunately I wasn't able to read the article due to the paywall, but I did…

Are there reasons to think that trucks are easier to drive safely? E.g. you might be able to see further (even if you can't see the child walking in front of you at the crosswalk). Seem to be plenty of reasons to think they are more dangerous, and that it would be surprising to find that they aren't.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#17

Post by bobthepanda »

serf wrote: post #9
sijwbebdjj wrote: post #5

Americans are driving bigger and bigger vehicles, which cause even deadlier accidents with smaller vehicles and pedestrians. It's a big problem. Here's a good video on the problems with Americas increasingly large vehicles: https://youtu.be/aIy5uv5-VrE

> Americans are driving bigger and bigger vehicles.. vehicles have gone up in size globally. this might be driven primarily by the whims and desires of the US market, but it's by no means isolated to the United States.

What is different is that Euro NCAP and ANCAP (Australia) do test pedestrian front impacts, but the US NCAP does not.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#18

Post by caseyross »

sonofhans wrote: post #3

> Findings suggest larger vehicles are involved in pedestrian and pedalcyclist crashes with more severe injuries that result in higher hospital charges. I've commuted 10s of thousands of miles by bike the last 30 years, mostly in an urban environment. This doesn't surprise me. I can't read the whole article, and the excerpt doesn't offer any data or speculation about the causes of this. So, with some experience, I'll…

Anyone remember the 1990s-2000s US-market civilian Hummer models, and how people at the time felt them to be absolutely massive? Well, the 2023 Chevy Suburban is a comparable size to the largest of those Hummers.

There are so many incentives for size creep, and improvements in occupant safety features and self-driving functionality just add fuel to the cycle, by making drivers feel like they can adequately control ever-bigger vehicles.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#19

Post by mc32 »

yboris wrote: post #14

Exactly on topic: a philosophy paper " Vehicles and Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked? " by Douglas Husak. Author argues that because of the high crash incompatibility with other vehicles (and pedestrians), SUV driving is immoral - imposing an oversized amount of harm to others with no proportional safety for self. https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447

There are three trends: bigger mass, larger sizes and taller vehicles.

Which one of the above is the most consequential?

I'm guessing height. at 2500 or 5000 lbs, neither is going to be pleasant when you bang in to it. size maybe there is more surface area to get hit by, but that's unlikely to be significant.

mass does influence stopping distance though, so that could be, but at the same time we now have large disc brakes with anti-skid.

Re: Effects of large vehicles on pedestrian and pedal-cyclist injury severity

#20

Post by bobthepanda »

elihu wrote: post #7

Something I've wondered about is how do some of the newer vehicle designs fare when it comes to pedestrian safety? Presumably getting hit by a Tesla Cybertruck or Canoo Lifestyle Vehicle would be pretty bad, but are they just as bad as a giant pickup truck? My intuition says yeah, probably. But there might be some nuance, like maybe the Canoo has better-than-average visibility so hitting pedestrians is less likely. I…

They do in Europe: https://www.media.volvocars.com/global/en-gb/media/pressrele...

They exist because Euro NCAP tests for pedestrian impact safety. NCAP (US) does not.

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