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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#211

Post by capableweb »

neverrroot wrote: post #38

Guess it depends on what your standards are. You can have it everywhere from today to likely never. Want just basic stuff, no apps store, no good camera, no good runtime on battery? Today, go get one. Value security more than anything else? Available today. Want a high end smart phone with proper open source Linux/Software and apps store, great camera, fast and great battery runtime? Likely never. Linux won’t get the…

I used to think the same thing (especially after getting a PinePhone which is nowhere near being ready for the masses) but after getting a Steam Deck, which is totally a mass-consumer ready gaming platform running (and even exposing it to the users) Linux, I think Linux Phones are just missing the right company to move forward with it. Would be much harder than building a gaming console, for sure, since hardware manufacturers of basebands/modems are really anti-OSS, but I think the time will eventually come. It'll take time though.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#212

Post by preisschild »

phatfish wrote: post #210
preisschild wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a non-popular Android isn't a choice for govmt e-id. I use a hardened Android distro (GrapheneOS) on my phone. Even with a locked bootloader and no root my countries (austria) e-government app and my banking app blocks me due to a "integrity check" failing.

I would guess it is because GrapheneOS does not pass the Google "SafteyNet" check. The Android distros that are more well known do not pass by default due to Google coming after them if they do. LineageOS has not passed it for the last few years. There are pretty simple patches you can apply though to get it passing, assuming nothing else about the phone triggers it.

I don't even have the Google Services installed on my phone because I consider them a security and privacy risk.

For now I can use my computer, because they fortunately also have a website, but I could see in the near-future that you have to have this app installed.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#213

Post by yyyk »

zozbot234 wrote: post #181
colordrops wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've moved the goalposts. The original claim was that you couldn't run open source android with calendar, email, etc. But that is obviously not true because I'm doing that right now. Now you are pointing at a bunch of closed source software on Google Play, but that's irrelevant to the discussion. And even then you admit it mostly works with the microg compatibility layer. MicroG and WINE are not much different in t…

> the purely open source elements of the android ecosystem work far better than the pure Linux ecosystem This isn't really true, unless you specifically care about compatibility with (1) proprietary Android apps and/or (2) fiddly hardware that's supported in downstream Android builds but lacks complete support on the mainline kernel. Everything else has basically reached and exceeded parity with AOSP. (To be fair, th…

> (2) fiddly hardware that's supported in downstream Android builds but lacks complete support on the mainline kernel.

This described just about all modern smartphone hardware.

> (1) proprietary Android apps

What users want to be able to run.

>Everything else has basically reached and exceeded parity with AOSP.

I doubt it reached parity with the open source software available (!= AOSP).

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#214

Post by type0 »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #123
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

"the ID monopoly and Payment monopoly refuse to support other operating systems" This is my issue. I am commonly hearing people ask "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices. This is scary. I love the idea of having an alternative to iOS and Android. But I also need to function within society. This shouldn't be a choice.

> "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices.

in practice there are only two choices, it's called a duopoly and most people know it.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#215

Post by type0 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #189
ElCheapo wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not long ago many European countries required some form of digital COVID pass for travel. no they didn't? you could just access the platform on your computer and print the QR code the old fashioned way. Hell, you could do that without even having any electronics, you could just go to the library and print it there. >unless you want to be waiting weeks for letters and queueing at the office. this reads to me as "if y…

True, I printed mine on credit card format and laminated it, it was in my card wallet. Much faster than opening an app every time and zero tracking, at least on my side. Glad we're rid of that though.

I am quite confident that this wouldn't be allowed if there wasn't so many seniors without smartphones though

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#216

Post by pjmlp »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #203
dredmorbius wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Termux is a godsend on Android, and remains The Only App Which Does Not Specifically and Precisely Suck (though EinkBro is giving it a good run for its money). Termux still has a host of limitations and weaknesses which are imposed by the Android environment itself , including being capriciously killed by the OS, lack of multiple users, blocked access to most of the filesystem, and a relatively limited (though impres…

Yes it's pretty amazing. But the latest versions of Android are killing it. It's now not even possible anymore to update or install packages inside it if it's targeting the Android 10 SDK which is now required to publish to the app store. So the developer had to stop pushing updates. Which limits him to F-Droid or sideload users of which there are a lot less. I am worried he might not deem it worthwhile to continue.…

They need to embrace how Android works instead of pretending to be a Linux distribution, if not, well that is what happens.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#217

Post by [deleted] »

pjmlp wrote: post #216
GekkePrutser wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's pretty amazing. But the latest versions of Android are killing it. It's now not even possible anymore to update or install packages inside it if it's targeting the Android 10 SDK which is now required to publish to the app store. So the developer had to stop pushing updates. Which limits him to F-Droid or sideload users of which there are a lot less. I am worried he might not deem it worthwhile to continue.…

They need to embrace how Android works instead of pretending to be a Linux distribution, if not, well that is what happens.

[deleted]

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#218

Post by GekkePrutser »

pjmlp wrote: post #216
GekkePrutser wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's pretty amazing. But the latest versions of Android are killing it. It's now not even possible anymore to update or install packages inside it if it's targeting the Android 10 SDK which is now required to publish to the app store. So the developer had to stop pushing updates. Which limits him to F-Droid or sideload users of which there are a lot less. I am worried he might not deem it worthwhile to continue.…

They need to embrace how Android works instead of pretending to be a Linux distribution, if not, well that is what happens.

But this is just not feasible for something like termux. Termux is the equivalent of a Linux distribution on Android. If they would let that go there would be no reason for it to exist.

The Android way would be to publish all packages individually on the app store. Termux has tens of thousands of packages. This would simply be insane and Google wouldn't permit it.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#219

Post by pjmlp »

NuSkooler wrote: post #18

It's mentioned already, but: Android. Discounting Android as "Not Linux" enough is a mind boggle to me. Perhaps not "GNU" enough, but certainly the spirit of Linux -- customized for the particular needs, stable, fast, works on a plethora of hardware, etc.

Because Linux is not exposed to userspace.

All you have access to are Java, Kotlin, ISO C, ISO C++, and NDK libraries.

Nothing about Linux is public, other than APIs used by OEMs themselves.

Since Android 8, even Linux kernel drivers are considered legacy and all new ones are required to be Treble based.

All the LinuxSE, seccomp,...are also not exposed and can only be customised by OEMs.

People like to pat themselves on the back regarding Android, however it could start using any other kernel and the apps sold on official stores would at most need to be recompiled.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#220

Post by nibbleshifter »

timonoko wrote: post #133

You can strap Raspberry to your phone via USB and you have 100% Linux phone without restrictions. Communication happens via Phone's USB-tethering and Raspberry's Internet-via-USB (and bVNC). OTG-phone can also power the Raspberry. I used this setup a lot, but nowadays Termux with X11-server is good enough. Most use nowadays is photo editing with GIMP. You can gain excellent dexterity with bVNC with time.

I'd been considering working out a way to do this over Bluetooth networking for a while - have a Pi0W on a power bank in my bag, hooked up to phone over BT for when I want to test something quick on the go (ideas often happen on buses, subways, etc).

Might tinker with it this evening.

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