Live data from Hacker News

People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

vice.com

31–40 of 121 posts

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What laws do they break?

If they're organizing swatting then that should be covered under conspiracy to commit a crime https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 Swatting is incredibly dangerous. I fear many see it as a prank but when you get cops with guns charging into what they think is a dangerous situation then people get hurt. Then you have harassment laws https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment... . There are…

You probably aren't meaning to, but you're spreading outright lies that always originate with people who are mad at the Kiwis. This is just plain made up. Maybe you're thinking of 4chan circa 2004. Maybe you think all internet trolls are one big community. I don't know.

The problem is that just about nobody outside of KF has any reason at all to know anything about them, besides what they hear second hand from people who are upset with them.

Saying one word on the forum even hinting at the encouragement of what they term "GayOps" - or interacting directly with / harassing the subjects, is perhaps the only bannable offense there is. And that's not a term of endearment, and this is not a wink, wink, nudge thing. I know your mind wants to reject this, but it is the case. There's no secret chatroom. If there is it's a completely separate community because they wouldn't be able to talk to the actual community about any of it. The forum OGs will attempt to mock you into submission before things get to that point. The vast majority of the users have no interest in messing with them and it is against the culture. A few people will try to talk to the subjects on Twitter and in 7 years I've never once seen it go past that. Not once.

99% of their activity is screencapping public tweets, making mean-spirited quips about them, and... and nothing. That's it. That's what they do. People aren't mad about what KF does. They think they are, because people aren't capable of thinking clearly about this, particularly when they're the targets. People are really mad about what they say. They just can't believe it's legal to say the horrible things they say. But it is. And they're mad about where and how the Kiwis direct attention. And the more postmodern targets have lately taken to yapping about what they've termed "stochastic terrorism". That's the idea that the speech on the forum raises the statistical likelihood that somebody might decide to commit a crime OR that a target might commit suicide. Stochastic terrorism. This is how they're able to say with a straight face that the Kiwis are terrorists, committing terrorism, in addition to being nazis, fascists, alt-right, inciting violence and all the standard by the book things that you people have taken to calling every single person who doesn't exercise their right to talk about shit in the way you think they should.

Almost everything I've ever read about Kiwi Farms was blatant and obvious lies with an obvious agenda.

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#32
post #31
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're organizing swatting then that should be covered under conspiracy to commit a crime https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/371 Swatting is incredibly dangerous. I fear many see it as a prank but when you get cops with guns charging into what they think is a dangerous situation then people get hurt. Then you have harassment laws https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/harassment... . There are…

You probably aren't meaning to, but you're spreading outright lies that always originate with people who are mad at the Kiwis. This is just plain made up. Maybe you're thinking of 4chan circa 2004. Maybe you think all internet trolls are one big community. I don't know. The problem is that just about nobody outside of KF has any reason at all to know anything about them, besides what they hear second hand from people…

My only actual experience with them is their refusal to remove video of my country men getting violently murdered. While I don't think they should have been forced to do that it was the right thing to do. The families should have been given that respect.

Anything outside of that I'll admit I'm probably wrong or at best uninformed. I have no doubt that in this day and age they're being attacked in bad faith by the media.

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that, much like the alleged body count, they do nothing of the sort. See my post above. They don't harass or even troll. It's literally one of the core rules of the site. Look (and laugh) but don't touch! If you ever try to organize something on-site, you'll get down-voted, your post deleted and potentially even banned. Attempting to swat isn't just not allowed on the site, but most members call out ac…

I'm going on the article above. It alleges that crimes have been committed. If there is no crime that is great and they might have a reasonable claim to libel. I guess my point is that any action against them should be for specific crimes committed by law enforcement. Not de-platforming by an angry mob. The nice thing about falling back on the justice system is you need to prove your claims. So if there is no crime h…

[dead]

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#36

Quoted post unavailable.

These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms If their availability suffers a little, it doesn't seem like a grave loss for the internet. It's not like there's a world-wide shortage of websites.

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implication is that Keffals and friends will DDoS the site out of existence, as they have apparently tried to do numerous times. This is of course criminal but goes unmentioned.

Requests made as part of a ddos are as free as any other form of speech. A lot of people don't like to admit it, but it's true.

Is it? I'm one of those free speech people, I think, but I do recognize that some 'speech' is harassment when combined with action. Not because of the content, but because you're intending to disrupt somebody, such as following them around all day and yelling. DDoS seems like that. Doesn't it? I mean you're not even saying anything. It's like saying throwing rocks at a window is speech. "What? I'm just trying to say I don't like you. Speech!"

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#38
post #32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably aren't meaning to, but you're spreading outright lies that always originate with people who are mad at the Kiwis. This is just plain made up. Maybe you're thinking of 4chan circa 2004. Maybe you think all internet trolls are one big community. I don't know. The problem is that just about nobody outside of KF has any reason at all to know anything about them, besides what they hear second hand from people…

My only actual experience with them is their refusal to remove video of my country men getting violently murdered. While I don't think they should have been forced to do that it was the right thing to do. The families should have been given that respect. Anything outside of that I'll admit I'm probably wrong or at best uninformed. I have no doubt that in this day and age they're being attacked in bad faith by the med…

I do understand your feelings on that.. The whole thing seems to have blew up when someone from their government requested a list of everyone who downloaded or viewed the video or manifesto. This was right around the time that they were very publicly arresting people for even looking at either. The owner wasn't happy about that and told them off.. Then the media (including sites like vice) reported it as "KF refuses to release information on the CC shooting" something the site is still blamed for to this day in some places.

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The implication is that Keffals and friends will DDoS the site out of existence, as they have apparently tried to do numerous times. This is of course criminal but goes unmentioned.

Requests made as part of a ddos are as free as any other form of speech. A lot of people don't like to admit it, but it's true.

Absolutely wrong, DDoS attacks are illegal under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, section 1030(a)(5):

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R46536.pdf

Re: People are demanding that Cloudflare drop Kiwi Farms

#40

Quoted post unavailable.

These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms If their availability suffers a little, it doesn't seem like a grave loss for the internet. It's not like there's a world-wide shortage of websites.

That isn't how free speech or net neutrality works. Intimidating websites you don't like off the Internet, which is what Keffals et al are doing by trying to remove this site's DDoS protection so they can illegally force them offline, is corrosive to all types of online speech period. If KiwiFarms breaks the law, then by all means take down the website.

Secondarily, I don't see anyone else-- journalists, politicians, NGOs, anyone-- doing this kind of deep dive into the sort of online harm Keffals represents. Grooming young children into bathtub-gin sex changes behind the backs of parents and doctors is monstrous. If the only people documenting this are Internet trolls on KiwiFarms, all the more reason to defend their civil rights until the rest of society comes to its senses.

Post reply on HN