Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

xyinn.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 163 posts

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#101

Post by somat »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #48

Serious question: what is so compelling about the FreeBSD desktop experience compared to Linux that makes it worth jumping through all these hoops?

I Find openbsd makes for a very nice desktop operating system. first of all note that I am talking about a unix style desktop, if you are expecting something more like a mac or windows desktop you would find it lacking, the only thing I add(aside from the usual large desktop applications) is spectrewm as I like a tileing window manager.

But there is something very comfortable about the openbsd base system that I have not found in a linux system, don't get me wrong linux is one of the good guys. it does not actively anger me up like using a windows desktop system does. But I really feel at home on openbsd, I think it is because I feel I understand the system well.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#102

Post by ninjin »

cowtools wrote: post #74
kergonath wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, because Linux’s copyleft is what forced nVidia to publish decent open source drivers 15 years ago.

I would say that linux isn't able to strong-arm nvidia into complying because nvidia can just go back to distributing their closed-source driver on permissively-licensed OSes such as BSD.

I have a hard time making the parent comment even making logical sense.

So the reason we are not seeing say open CUDA drivers from NVIDIA for Linux is that they instead distribute closed ones for permissively licensed operating systems such as FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Illumos, MINIX, Plan9, etc.? Which (apart from all lacking CUDA drivers) all universally have less support from hardware manufacturers both when it comes to open and closed drivers across the board? ERRNOLOGIC.

You are aware that FreeBSD got closed NVIDIA graphics driver support about a decade after Linux? It is also the only operating system with a permissive license that I am aware of NVIDIA ever supporting.

Alternatively, are you trying to refer to that some game consoles used FreeBSD as a basis and had proprietary NVIDIA drivers written for them? You are aware that there is nothing stopping them from doing exactly the same thing with Linux?

You are free to believe in “licensing magic” being a solution as much as you want, but I think that you will find that it all has much more to do with what NVIDIA is ultimately all about: Shipping as many cards as is humanly possible while maintaining a borderline monopoly maximising profits.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#103

Post by heywoodlh »

_ofdw wrote: post #100
johnklos wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. Also, because they don't change gratuitously, once you learn their quirks, you can move on to other things without needing to worry about re-learning tons about the next update. Linux is a constantly moving target with lots of churn that users of computers really don't want or need.

>The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. I see this opinion a lot, but what tangible benefits does that result in?

As far as I understand it, anything a user installs with pkg that isn't included with the base system is installed into /usr/local.

For me, this is a nice benefit because I can know that anything installed into /usr/local can be removed and won't break the basic system's functionality. This organizational structure I think is also just very sensible imo.

Note: I'm mostly a Linux user but I play around with FreeBSD a lot. I wish that by default my Arch machine organized things similarly, but ultimately it's minor enough for me that I haven't switched

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#104

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

_ofdw wrote: post #100
johnklos wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. Also, because they don't change gratuitously, once you learn their quirks, you can move on to other things without needing to worry about re-learning tons about the next update. Linux is a constantly moving target with lots of churn that users of computers really don't want or need.

>The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. I see this opinion a lot, but what tangible benefits does that result in?

Less hassle.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#105

Post by ruslan »

heywoodlh wrote: post #103
_ofdw wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The BSDs are much cleaner than Linux distros. I see this opinion a lot, but what tangible benefits does that result in?

As far as I understand it, anything a user installs with pkg that isn't included with the base system is installed into /usr/local. For me, this is a nice benefit because I can know that anything installed into /usr/local can be removed and won't break the basic system's functionality. This organizational structure I think is also just very sensible imo. Note: I'm mostly a Linux user but I play around with FreeBSD a…

Just out of my curiosity, what would be that little thing which could make you switch to FreeBSD from Linux ?

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#106

Post by systemvoltage »

cowtools wrote: post #77
systemvoltage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.

I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At…

It is a fact that many companies from startups to corporations do not have the flexibility of working in open source.

There is nothing to disagree here.

You're shoving in GPL ideology where none was asked for. No one is asking to do free work for corporations; this is a flimsy straw man. You're welcome to do what you feel, I was stating the fact that FreeBSD has done the world a lot of good. That's hard to refute even in the worst of assumptions. And that's not saying anything about GPL. It has its place.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#107

Post by inopinatus »

cowtools wrote: post #77
systemvoltage wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.

I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At…

Folks that mindfully contribute BSD- and MIT-licensed software do not share the perspective that they are performing unpaid labor for corporations.

I personally regard copyleft as a severe curtailing of options and equate it with being forced to adopt a narrow, ideological worldview. Worse, the GPL perpetuates the fundamental atrocity of intellectual property law, by hacking it, and therefore intrinsically depending on it; in contrast, the BSD and MIT licenses are mostly a liability waiver under an assertion of attribution, ultimately creations more of necessity than ideology.

In the context of abjuring exploitative corporations, I hear an echo of trade unionism, a movement often oblivious to its own reinforcement of capitalism, again by depending upon the thing it purports to confront; few entities are more aligned with the moral sentiments of Adam Smith than a trade union engaged in collective bargaining. And so it is with the copyleft licenses and their implicit support for enforceable intellectual property rights.

The article linked appears to be derogatory, emotive, riddled with false equivalences, and relies on invective as a substitute for rhetoric. Rather than finding it compelling, it think it describes a myopic, narcissistic view of both intellectual advancement and the value of unfettered contribution.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#108

Post by GekkePrutser »

cowtools wrote: post #21
keewee7 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?

The nvidia drivers sure are. I don't know about most drivers though. As for wifi, I own this ath9k card which I'm told is completely free, but I also own this intel 3160 chip that apparently requires some firmware to be loaded. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_wire...

Funny, a decade ago the story was "atheros is evil" and Intel was the Linux darling. How things change..

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#109

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

mkozlows wrote: post #97
0x457 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) I wouldn't be so sure. My Dell XPS 13 and ThinkPad X1 Carbon both had issues with suspend/resume. Close the lid @ get surprised with a completely dead battery. Ironically, when I u…

It's true that some hardware is not Linux compatible, but if you get stuff that is (like the Framework 12th gen I'm typing this on), it does in fact just work out of the box. Wifi, sound, GPU, fingerprint reader, suspend, the works.

I had a laptop on the Ubuntu Certified hardware list (https://ubuntu.com/certified) some HP model.

Suspend still didn't work. Is there a list I have not found?

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#110

Post by GekkePrutser »

ndiddy wrote: post #68
xupybd wrote: post #47

I want to try BSD one day but these sorts of articles put me off. I used to enjoy trying to get things working but I just don't have that sort of time anymore. I understand that the community only has so many resources to support the various hardware around. I suspect one BSDs strengths is that the smaller community is able to follow a more cohesive vision. But for me this means I'm probably not going learn it until…

In every image I've seen of a FreeBSD developer conference, the vast majority of the developers are running FreeBSD in a virtual machine on a Macbook. I guess they aren't considering real hardware support as a priority.

I run FreeBSD bare metal on my main desktop (Intel NUC).

But I don't need WiFi nor Bluetooth so that helps a lot. Don't have these on my windows (big gaming box) desktop either.

I'm just not a laptop person really. Only for work. That makes the situation a lot easier.

Post reply on HN