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FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

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Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#81

Man, FreeBSD really needs some driver love... * No Suspend/Resume? Linux has solved this for years, I have not come across a laptop in the last 10 years that had trouble with s2r or s2d (but I guess that there might be a few that don't fully support it, I mainly tested Dell laptops) * WiFi driver and Ethernet over USB-C both highly unstable? That's an Intel chipset, those are usually the more stable ones (at least on…

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Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#82
I really, really like my Framework laptop. But I've found I can only really run Windows on it without having to shift my entire Linux workflow

Not because Linux doesn't work at a *hardware* level. All the drivers are long since mainlined and the documentation on places like Gentoo and Arch's wikis are superb

The only blocker for me now is fractional scaling in XFCE is just not there (yet). It's something the developers are slowly working on and hoping to get out in the next release, but it's just not available yet.

I could use GNOME or KDE and gain it (and probably even run Wayland since it's an Intel iGPU) but I've been wedded to XFCE since GNOME 2 went out the door and GNOME 3 showed up. I'd rather not make the uphill climb to relearn an entire desktop environment for just a laptop I use infrequently

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.

I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At…

Corporations that don’t want to share code don’t share it even when copyleft.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#84
post #68
post #47

I want to try BSD one day but these sorts of articles put me off. I used to enjoy trying to get things working but I just don't have that sort of time anymore. I understand that the community only has so many resources to support the various hardware around. I suspect one BSDs strengths is that the smaller community is able to follow a more cohesive vision. But for me this means I'm probably not going learn it until…

In every image I've seen of a FreeBSD developer conference, the vast majority of the developers are running FreeBSD in a virtual machine on a Macbook. I guess they aren't considering real hardware support as a priority.

This seems to have changed over the last decade though.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#85
post #4
post #2

> wifibox essentially spins up an Alpine Linux VM using FreeBSD's bhyve virtualization technology, and allows you to passthrough your machine's wireless card Jesus christ.

It's easier than writing a driver for FreeBSD yourself, I suppose, although I'd probably just get a USB Wi-Fi dongle instead of worry about walking into a meeting and my Wi-Fi driver VM crashing :) (or, just run Linux and run FreeBSD in a VM, but that's no way to support a niche operating system...)

It’s also way better from a security point of view - there have been WiFi driver bugs, so there are going to be more of them.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally it would be the ability to run jails and ZFS on a desktop. That would in turn enable me to run the same in production because local/dev/prod parity would be a good thing.

Don’t Linux and FreeBSD both use OpenZFS these days? Jails are a fair point, but if they’re essential to your production environment, why not just run your FreeBSD dev environment in a VM on your Linux laptop, or SSH into a dedicated FreeBSD dev box? After all, OP is already running Linux in a VM in order to run working WiFi drivers.

> Don’t Linux and FreeBSD both use OpenZFS these days?

Certain integrations between ZFS and the OS are more 'elegant' in FreeBSD:

* https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=beadm

* https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?bectl

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#87
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Work on permissively licensed software typically has the net effect of decreasing global freedom by reducing the costs of corporations to produce proprietary software. I try to avoid contributing to permissively-licensed software when possible, and I prefer to co-operate with businesses that use free software to avoid vendor lock-in as much as possible. Why should we all do free work for corporations? At…

Corporations that don’t want to share code don’t share it even when copyleft.

From the opinion article I linked:

>At the end of the day, though, what does it matter? What is a totally unenforced GPL? It's just a Cuck License—Isn't that what license cucks want? So why should they care? At their very best, BSD and MIT licenses are only what GPL might be at its very worst.

>The GPL is a permanent liability for any company that crosses it. Some companies might be so bold to lift GPL code and hide it, but there is always a risk and a worry that prevents its general violation.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if FreeBSD had a copyleft license, maybe companies would have a reason to publish their drivers, or you could port drivers from Linux.

I am glad FreeBSD exists. Not every commercial venture has the luxury to release their source code, even if they wanted to. If you're writing software for banks or defense, the source needs to be closed. FreeBSD enables these companies to exist and while consumer grade drivers are not available, many things in FreeBSD are rock solid. Thanks to commercial contributions.

no, this shows incomplete understanding of layering in a modern operating system. Closed-by-default software projects, over time, are less secure; common source code components make a stronger system over time when executed well; secrets can be handled in a secure manner in security-sensitive applications; well factored software using modern layers are more secure over time with common, tested software components.

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t Linux and FreeBSD both use OpenZFS these days? Jails are a fair point, but if they’re essential to your production environment, why not just run your FreeBSD dev environment in a VM on your Linux laptop, or SSH into a dedicated FreeBSD dev box? After all, OP is already running Linux in a VM in order to run working WiFi drivers.

> Don’t Linux and FreeBSD both use OpenZFS these days? Certain integrations between ZFS and the OS are more 'elegant' in FreeBSD: * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=beadm * https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?bectl

Also ARC and page cache (kernel mm) integration isn't very good on Linux. It's fine for NAS but possibly not good for desktop usage. Perhaps good on FreeBSD?

Re: FreeBSD on the Framework Laptop

#90
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most Linux drivers closed source binary blobs?

No? The vast majority of hardware has OSS drivers (and they're usually even the better choice!) - the big exception here for average machines is NVIDIA.

AMD cards depend on non-free firmware.
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