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Remote startups will win the war for top talent

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431–440 of 492 posts

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, see what I mean in another thread. Return-to-office is in large part steered by public opinion and commercial real estate issues. For every bold company that leans into remote, the majority rest check the public temperature and do what seems in line pending open revolt form their employees or competitors offering remote. So much of the public temperature around remote work is oriented around heavy support from pu…

So you are advocating for the censorship of someone who supports return to office based on the fact that it would create a sweeping effect across the industry that would force you back into a cubicle? Yeah, no thanks.

The sweeping effect is already happening.

The Mayor of NYC and state governor are directly petitioning companies to “fill our downtown!” For Pete’s sake.

So, with that in mind, I’m advocating for employees who want to go back to consider how their vocal opinions affect other employees who don’t want it, which based on the ghost-town hybrid office attempts and midtown NYC being at like 40% capacity are a critical mass of workers, to understand how their vocal-ness gets co-opted by entities that care a lot less about that worker’s having a friend group and more about commercial real estate, getting commuters back and generally abstract “well this is how it’s always done” logic, and to understand that they as employees add the final piece to making RTO happen in a way that harms all employees who aren’t in nimble jobs like SWE but should still be able to see their families grow up even if they don’t know how to code.

On the remote work side, you have largely tech companies which are down for it no issue but aren’t most companies, and then you have employees who just want to see their families and soccer games and get to know their spouses before age 60.

This population gets ignored by the somewhat very powerful stakeholders for RTO by wrapping up the argument in abstract “national /personal meaning” arguments as if the office is the only way to get those, and then the addition is that the stay-at-home employees are pajama-wearing slackers who don’t understand this greater good.

But, as long as employees don’t budge by and large and hop companies for remote, this is in balance for both the employees that want to be remote and the ones that want an office.

But when employees who want to RTO and start advocating for it, it’s changed. They add the final piece for employers and stakeholders who ultimately just want commercial rent paid and downtown lunch traffic to say “see, employees want RTO too!” This is all over LinkedIn and op-eds consistently.

The sweeps start happening, and everyone comes in, all because Bob wanted easy access to after-work pub experiences. At the cost of other employees’ family lives and literal hours of their day on a commute.

I’m not advocating for censorship, I’m advocating for candor in evaluating what’s going on.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#432
post #141

I've been working 100% remotely for about 6.5 years now. Overall I love it. However, there are very real drawbacks that have taken me awhile to fully realize. For me, the primary one is that it's _way_ too easy for everyone to get deeply frustrated with each other. Social interactions and chit-chat lead to a better understanding of people and a more accurate mental model of what people actually mean when they say som…

Although I've had the same observation, I've been observing it long before I started working remotely: I'd drive 30-45 minutes into an office and then spend the day emailing or IM-ing people in different cities, countries and continents. It's been over 20 years since even most of the people I interacted with on a daily basis were anywhere near the same physical location as I was.

Yeah, it's not limited to remote specifically, for sure.

I had the same experience in an office setting when working as an internal consultant at a big corporation. I'd often be helping teams on the other side of the globe on short-lived projects.

When you don't ever meet the people you're working with face to face, it's just easier to misinterpret what people say.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well risk is about likelihood vs impact, and work interactions are shaped by risk. It’s a low likelihood but high impact event to be shot by your board game buddy. It’s a med or high likelihood and high impact event that your career will suffer bc of a misstep in a social sphere at work, or imo more accurately it’s a medium/high likelihood and high impact reward that by navigating work socialization correctly and as…

You can reach whatever conclusion you want by assigning "high risk" to the things you don't want to do and "low risk" to the things you want to do but that doesn't make it more objective. My experience is that the risk-adjusted expected value of being a sociable person at work is positive, both for your career and your overall happiness. I gather you think it's negative, which is fine, but let's not pretend one of us…

No, I don’t think it’s negative. Being sociable as actually the best way to get ahead in work. People want to help people who are nice and help back. This is the only way to do well long term at work, paired with really knowing your skill set.

The difference is I can do that sociable action just fine without adding an office dynamic that adds a commute and related expenses to my day (from a remote work discussion angle) and then hedge related risk of a social misfire damaging work (from a ITT angle).

I mean have you never seen someone drop the professional but social veneer for their true selves and seen it backfire? I certainly have but my experiences aren’t everything for sure.

Summary of Org Man is wrong. It’s a longitudinal study of lower/middle managers as they advance their careers on how workplace culture actually works and how they make decisions vs what’s taught in MBA programs. it’s all about tactical socialization and they leave their real selves at the door.

Edit - it’s also useful for engineers to read to understand the context that governs their work beyond making great tech. I was recommended it a while back and it saves my sanity.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#434
post #141

I've been working 100% remotely for about 6.5 years now. Overall I love it. However, there are very real drawbacks that have taken me awhile to fully realize. For me, the primary one is that it's _way_ too easy for everyone to get deeply frustrated with each other. Social interactions and chit-chat lead to a better understanding of people and a more accurate mental model of what people actually mean when they say som…

> I don't have an easy solution.

Isn't RTO pretty easy?

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#435
post #26

"A study conducted on the main campus of a Fortune 500 company found that just 10 percent of all communications occurred between employees whose desks were more than 500 meters apart. This suggests that once companies span multiple floors, buildings, or campuses, they’ve already lost much of the collaborative value of being “in the office” together." This point often seems to get missed. If you're at a large company,…

Do you think that point is often missed? I would have said the opposite: that it's pretty obvious that most of the advantages of working in person would apply only to fairly small teams that can collaborate synchronously.

>Do you think that point is often missed?

Yes I do. A lot of people seem to think that if everyone went into an office, they'd all be working with a co-located team sitting a stone's throw from each other. This may be true with startups. It's often not the case (with local small team exceptions) for larger companies--especially those which already had practices of being fairly flexible about location for a lot of hires.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very cynical way to look at the world. Work friends are real friends in the same way your pick-up league or board game night friends are real friends. You like some of them more than others, and you probably won't stay friends with most of them if you stop coming to whatever shared activity brought you together initially unless you make a concerted effort to stay in touch.

I think it’s a cynical way to look at work but those views don’t extend to my world. The issue with work socialization is career advancement involved, which means money, which means basic security for you and your family is on the line. I can be open and myself with my friends playing board games. Part of openness is testing out ideas and risking conflict. If I say something wrong, the worst that happens is I get a n…

You seem to have a pretty transactional view of what friendship means, whether it is at work or outside of work. Its very easy to not put your livelihood on the line at work and in work relationships...just don't be an idiot and respect those around you. If you just have an intolerable itch to spill all of your beliefs to every person in your life so that you can 'test out ideas and risk conflict'...the consequences of that are all on you, not society.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#437
post #141

I've been working 100% remotely for about 6.5 years now. Overall I love it. However, there are very real drawbacks that have taken me awhile to fully realize. For me, the primary one is that it's _way_ too easy for everyone to get deeply frustrated with each other. Social interactions and chit-chat lead to a better understanding of people and a more accurate mental model of what people actually mean when they say som…

agreed, really good point and I use “be nice twice” as a way to try to avoid it. The other aspect is I try to avoid participating in the “social media of work,” which I guess is like the resulting meta-community created by having work built in a Slack with text-based communication.

People get themselves into the dardnest trouble over a work Slack thread they just couldn’t drop.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#438
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It only takes me 4 hours to complete my work" is a sign that you are a ticket drone and not an engineer with agency. This by definition means you are not a top performer. You also seem toxic to boot.

Most people aren't paid based on performance. The only difference between GPs behavior and the average company's mentality? The company making fat profits off of anyone willing to bust their hump for a pittance is nowhere near as condemned as an employee doing the equivalent. Make performance scale better and the problem stops. There aren't enough jobs willing to do so.

That may all be true about compensation, but the poster was specifically making a claim about performance.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are advocating for the censorship of someone who supports return to office based on the fact that it would create a sweeping effect across the industry that would force you back into a cubicle? Yeah, no thanks.

The sweeping effect is already happening. The Mayor of NYC and state governor are directly petitioning companies to “fill our downtown!” For Pete’s sake. So, with that in mind, I’m advocating for employees who want to go back to consider how their vocal opinions affect other employees who don’t want it, which based on the ghost-town hybrid office attempts and midtown NYC being at like 40% capacity are a critical mass…

You're asking for candor, but not giving a bit of it back. Your argument can be completely flipped for the other side and it would make the same points. You are assuming OP is on LinkedIn boards and in work meetings holding up signs to initiate RTO. In reality they are probably just on HN expressing an opinion. For Pete's sake.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s a cynical way to look at work but those views don’t extend to my world. The issue with work socialization is career advancement involved, which means money, which means basic security for you and your family is on the line. I can be open and myself with my friends playing board games. Part of openness is testing out ideas and risking conflict. If I say something wrong, the worst that happens is I get a n…

You seem to have a pretty transactional view of what friendship means, whether it is at work or outside of work. Its very easy to not put your livelihood on the line at work and in work relationships...just don't be an idiot and respect those around you. If you just have an intolerable itch to spill all of your beliefs to every person in your life so that you can 'test out ideas and risk conflict'...the consequences…

Hm, where am I discussing my view of non-work community? Fwiw, I believe the richest interactions and results are from selfless involvement in a community and a family and building something long term.

Work culture tries to fill the same dynamic, but the profit motive, MBA culture and general sociopathy of the workplace (maybe you’d call me one?) make it a loose imitation at best.

So I play the game at work, and I actively build and value true bonds in my community and family where nobody cares about OKRs or RSUs.

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