Remote startups will win the war for top talent • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#351

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #128

rngname22 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that those of your view and those espousing that remote is more difficult might have different personalities, levels of need of social interaction, or lifestyles? Have you considered that your company is self-selecting for those who flourish in remote, but that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? It's OK for there to not be a one size fits all…

I wonder if those personality differences get considered when they throw everyone into a single room with a few low cubicle walls. I wonder if the market gives a shit about being fair to those who have personalities that thrive in said cubicles. Thirdly, I wonder if those who thrive in remote give a shit about being fair after having dealt with cubicle farms for so many years.

let the extroverts have their beloved office and introverts their home. anyone undecided can be "hybrid".

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#352

Post by somenewaccount1 » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

I agree with the vast majority of the article, but take contention with this sarcastic question:

> Does anyone, outside of company management, believe that considering your coworkers your closest social relationships is a good thing?

Over the years, I have really underestimated the strength of friendships which were made at the office. And also, how much they meant to me as well.

The flexibility of remote work is awesome, but I don't think it is in its final form. There are definitely aspects missing which we haven't solved yet.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#353

Post by davemp » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

redleggedfrog wrote: post #66

"Your remote team is my company's opportunity." Purely anecdotal based on my own experience, but at my company we have some people who work in an office and lots more that work remotely. The in office staff contribute more ideas, work, fixes, and functional software than the remote teams by a factor of 4 or 5, or sometimes, depending on the in office worker, 10 times. Those are hard numbers right out of our project m…

> we also get the most important projects and are paid the most

Seems like this would drastically affect motivation and therefore output. Sounds your company may have a self fulfilling prophecy about remote work being less productive.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#354

Post by danjoredd » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

time_to_smile wrote: post #316

trention wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think you will be able to tell by looking at a period of 6 months whether a contraction (that hasn't actually even started yet in terms of total employment) is just a regular recession or the apocalypse you prophesize, I have a brooklyn bridge to sell you.

"Apocalypse" is needlessly dramatic language. I think in 6 months we'll: - Unquestionably be in a recession - Have interest rates higher than they are today (i.e. cheap money does not return) - Major layoffs across the board at tech companies - It will be much harder to find a tech job after layoffs - Inflation still not tamed despite interest rate hikes and declining employment - Clear sentiment that this is worse t…

I agree. Its not going to be good. My main concern is staying employed for that whole period of time. As long as I can stay employed, I think I can come out on top, since people currently employed get hired easier than people who get laid off, ironically. I don't expect the economy to ever "return to normalcy." Our economy is currently diabetic and we are pumping it full of insulin to offset the years of sugar we pumped into it last decade. It may even out after a REALLY long time...everything does eventually. But until then things are going to be rocky.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#355

Post by andrewingram » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:54 PM UTC

jkukul wrote: post #243

andrewingram wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. During my somewhat passive job search, I've only been considering companies that have an office local to me (i.e. Central London). I've been working remotely since the start of the pandemic, and I simply don't like it. Sure, I don't miss having to commute or offices with bad noise pollution controls, but I miss everything else. Most of all, I miss being in town at the end of the day and being able to pop to th…

1. Find an interesting remote job. 2. Sign-up to a local coworking space in Central London and make a habit to go there every day. Try to make friends with people there and go out with them every now and then. Many coworking spaces even try to facilitate community building by organising events, etc. 3. Profit. Socializing doesn't need to happen at work.

This is an avenue i've been considering. In my case it does require enough budget to allow for a somewhat permanent co-working space setup (big monitor, mouse, keyboard etc), but it's an option.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#356

Post by TrackerFF » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

dont__panic wrote: post #247

echelon wrote: post #55

There are so many forces pulling in so many directions. The world is being re-shuffled. Ultimately, I don't think it will favor labor at US/FAANG talent prices. - Young workers typically want to socialize with other young workers - Older workers prefer to be alone, with family, etc. Have funds for larger homes and at-home amenities - Nearly everyone hates commutes - Cities are expensive and small, but exciting. Rural…

Companies could hire and replace workers outside of American borders for the last... century at least? Video chat and conference calls have been a thing for decades at this point. Why does remote change this equation? If American real estate and salaries are expensive, businesses could always just open an office in a cheaper country, somewhere in Eastern Europe, India, or Asia, etc. I'm a little confused how the bull…

The pandemic turned out to be the gamechanger - as it ushered in remote work on a unprecedented scale.

At least it gave a decent indicator (for companies) on what worked, what didn't, and how adapt for the future.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#357

Post by dogman144 » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

librish wrote: post #347

dogman144 wrote: post #305

This thread has interesting debate, and makes me think these are the core questions which I wonder how others feel: - Who believes most work friends are actual friends that by and large want to be there as well? - Who builds and maintains friends at work for 90% career management, and the other 10% are cool people you enjoy working with and then you stay in touch with 1-2 of them once you leave a job? - Who views the…

This seems like a very cynical way to look at the world. Work friends are real friends in the same way your pick-up league or board game night friends are real friends. You like some of them more than others, and you probably won't stay friends with most of them if you stop coming to whatever shared activity brought you together initially unless you make a concerted effort to stay in touch.

I think it’s a cynical way to look at work but those views don’t extend to my world.

The issue with work socialization is career advancement involved, which means money, which means basic security for you and your family is on the line.

I can be open and myself with my friends playing board games. Part of openness is testing out ideas and risking conflict. If I say something wrong, the worst that happens is I get a new group of friends to play Catan with. If that happens at work, my mortgage and family is on the line.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#358

Post by bart_spoon » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

davidhunter wrote: post #332

What is more rewarding? 1. Relocating to an obscure town in Texas to work intensely with ambitious engineers on hard space exploration technology. 2. Building a truly breakthrough software system (eg metaverse/gaming/crypto) with ambitious engineers in a fully distributed company? I find it hard to see how a company doing (1) would lose against a competitor doing (1) in a distributed fashion. I also find it hard to s…

Yes, but you are comparing apples to oranges. The comparison is:

1. Relocating to (city) to work in person with ambitious engineers on X. 2. Living where you choose to work remotely with ambitious engineers on X.

When there is a choice, it seems workers generally greatly prefer 2. If your labor market is inelastic, you might be fine. If it's elastic, it seems like on-prem will definitely lose out to remote in terms of the labor pool.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#359

Post by bornfreddy » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:55 PM UTC

bearjaws wrote: post #16

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

A very specific question if I may... How do you handle cameras in meetings? Are they mandatory for everyone present? What do you do when someone has a bad connection?

Asking because in all settings I was in, when someone came online with their camera off, others soon followed suit. At least to me, there is a huge difference between a videoconference and a voice chat... Seeing other people makes remote meetings much more pleasant. Or is it just me?

What rules do those who work remotely have for video?

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#360

Post by tomduncalf » Tue, Aug 23, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #79

lm28469 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile we have had no problem sourcing candidates since we can pull from anywhere in the world, we have some incredible people all over the world that we would not have gotten otherwise. How do you handle taxes ? For example in Europe a German company can't hire a French dev if the german company doesn't have a legal entity in France, it quickly gets out of control both in term of paperwork and cost. The dev can…

I have a friend who's physically in the UK and works for a US company. I was interviewing for a remote job in the UK while being physically in France. In both situations, the setup is a local company (possibly self-owned) that bills the actual company. So you're not UsCorp's employee, you're an YourOwnCorp employee, and UsCorp is YourOwnCorp's client. This way, all taxes and related issues are handled locally. Sure,…

In the UK we have IR35 and AFAIK in other countries there are similar laws in place to prevent people working as contractors for their own limited company when they "should" be an employee (determined by various factors), and as far as I know it applies regardless of whether both entities are in the same country or not. Of course, you can be careful with contracts and working conditions etc. to try to avoid this, but it's definitely not trivial and something of a grey area.