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Remote startups will win the war for top talent

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311–320 of 492 posts

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#311
I love remote work and will never go back to in person work again. But I do see some problems, both immediate and on the horizon.

I look at the people on my social media that I actively follow, and they are in three groups: friends from High School, friends from college, friends from work. None of those groups are growing. The first two for obvious reasons, but last one is the concern. I think back to the last time I worked in an office.

My path to the bathroom happened to go past a bunch of people I never worked with for my job, but I'm still friends with a lot of them a decade later. People who I would just start random conversations with on the way to and from the bathroom. And I'm still friends with a lot of my old coworkers who I last worked with a decade ago (the last time I worked in an office). In part because we hung out a lot outside of work, going to lunch, dinner, bars, shows, etc.

But after that? My rate of making new work friends went way down. The chances for socializing are very small. The closest friends I've made in the last few years are all parents from my kids' schools, because we have constant in person interactions.

My old work friendships are not only important to my psychological well being, but also in finding new work. When I need a new job I go to those friends first. I'm lucky that I already have that network, but people who are new to work life won't have that chance.

Which leads to the other problem I see -- the juniors of today are the seniors of tomorrow. But the juniors of today are losing out on a lot of chances for mentorship with remote work.

Remote work is great for mid to senior level people, who already have some experience and know what they are doing. But it's not great for junior employees. They need those random interactions, randomly overhearing shop talk, being in the hallway and getting pulled into a meeting "because you really should be learning this". All things that happened to me when I was a junior engineer, and helped me immensely.

We try to replicate that with remote work, but it's just not nearly as effective.

So either we'll have a tier of in person companies where all the junior employees will work with the few senior people who like being in the office, or we're going to have a big problem in a few years when there are a bunch of junior people who we can't promote because they didn't get the mentorship they need to move up.

We need to solve the mentorship problem and the (human) network building in a remote world.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#312
One huge advantage of remote, is that it seriously cuts down on harassment, sexual and otherwise.

The corporate world is full of examples of predators that hide in the multitude of in-person interactions to annoy, threaten, or harass. Remote makes that harder, and makes it much easier to document harassment.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#313
post #14

My productivity went at least 10x when the pandemic happened. - No commute - No 1 hour lunch (walking, buying, eating, cleaning up) - Not in an open-desk office where I'm constantly interrupted - Meetings are much more focused and I can hop between meetings quickly - Easy to do chores if necessary during the day and then work extra hours at night to make up - Office politics much reduced, output is easier to measure…

I had almost the exact opposite experience, and for basically all the same reasons you mentioned.

- Lost my amazing bike commute. It's infinitely harder to motivate myself to bike for 30 mins in the morning and afternoon now, so I don't do it.

- No lunch reset. I still take an extended lunch because I need it to break up my day, but now it's just me depressingly eating by myself.

- Not in an open-desk office where I get to interact with people regularly. Being by myself all the time makes focusing pretty much impossible.

- Meetings seem mostly the same to me, except that people are way less engaged.

- Really easy to do non-work stuff instead of working, so I often find myself doing that instead.

- Output remains impossible to measure. Building relationships is now extra difficult, so the people who have them have an even bigger leg up.

And finally, reduced my connection to my peers and my org which drastically reduces my engagement and job satisfaction.

I'm trying to get back to the office ASAP, and basically coming to terms with the fact that I'm probably going to need to switch industries because of this.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are virtually no engineers in Lagos and very few in Buenos Aires who compete with engineers in SF/NYC (the one getting SF/NYC salary) in terms of skill set. One thing that many people overestimate is number of competent engineers outside of well known tech hubs. I know that it was big surprise for FB and other big tier 1 companies when they started to hire remotely was that it was not actually easier to hire re…

I'm simply not buying it. If you can't find potential in a candidate pool that's practically in the tens to hundreds of millions, it's more likely your search methods aren't cutting it. EDIT: But let me specify - the original premise to this was that there are already two comparable candidates in SF and somewhere else in the world.

It makes sense right now -- those folks didn't get the same mentorship as the ones in tech hubs, because all the senior people who were good moved to the tech hubs until recently.

I think this will normalize over time, but it will normalize to no one getting good mentorship as all the senior folks work remotely.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#315
post #141

I've been working 100% remotely for about 6.5 years now. Overall I love it. However, there are very real drawbacks that have taken me awhile to fully realize. For me, the primary one is that it's _way_ too easy for everyone to get deeply frustrated with each other. Social interactions and chit-chat lead to a better understanding of people and a more accurate mental model of what people actually mean when they say som…

I've been working remote for about a year now and haven't had this issue. Maybe that's because 90% of our communication is done during meetings where we have tone to convey intent

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll make sure to check back on this comment in 6 months, certainly hoping that I do so laughing about how much I was overreacting.

If you think you will be able to tell by looking at a period of 6 months whether a contraction (that hasn't actually even started yet in terms of total employment) is just a regular recession or the apocalypse you prophesize, I have a brooklyn bridge to sell you.

"Apocalypse" is needlessly dramatic language.

I think in 6 months we'll:

- Unquestionably be in a recession

- Have interest rates higher than they are today (i.e. cheap money does not return)

- Major layoffs across the board at tech companies

- It will be much harder to find a tech job after layoffs

- Inflation still not tamed despite interest rate hikes and declining employment

- Clear sentiment that this is worse that the dotcom bust

I'm not sure how anyone working in tech, looking at the data behind the scenes, seeing where all the math doesn't quite add up, can possibly think what we're heading for will be a "regular recession". "apocalypse" is a bit hyperbolic, but this is going to be bad and I will be delighted to realize that I'm foolishly wrong on this one.

For the record, this is what I thought would happen during covid, but never imagine the insane[0] amount of money the FED would pump into the market. However we've exhausted that option, and I don't see how we're going to print money out of this one.

0. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M1SL

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#317
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can pay as much as you want but after a certain threshold having the possibility to work from home is paying for itself in many ways. No stress from commuting, more flexibility and more focus.

> You can pay as much as you want but after a certain threshold I'm curious if there is a multiplier a company could pay you personally to convince you to endure the commuting stress and inflexibility of an in-person office? I.e. would you go back to a commute for 1.2x, 1.5x, 2x, or 3x your current salary?

Just answering for myself, but no, absolutely not. Especially not while the office remains an open floor plan with no noise isolation.

I hate commuting, I hate shitty office lunches and interruptions totally ruin my focus. The things that people like about the office (long lunches with coworkers, spontaneous events, fun conversations) are literally my bane.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that those of your view and those espousing that remote is more difficult might have different personalities, levels of need of social interaction, or lifestyles? Have you considered that your company is self-selecting for those who flourish in remote, but that those whose personalities differ are self-selecting for working in an office environment? It's OK for there to not be a one size fits all…

I wonder if those personality differences get considered when they throw everyone into a single room with a few low cubicle walls. I wonder if the market gives a shit about being fair to those who have personalities that thrive in said cubicles. Thirdly, I wonder if those who thrive in remote give a shit about being fair after having dealt with cubicle farms for so many years.

Well said this is a refreshing take. All these please for going back to the office or being present in person seems aimed entirely to placate the people who for decades have exploited such environment to their favour. Chatting, small talk, being seen, all of which on top of the horrendeous open desk trend, only adds to the overhead for the rest of us who thrive in remote environments.

Market has already listened and are going to favor the latter group and the remote environment is going to be here with us indefinitely. If for whatever reason you feel like going against this new market trend/correction, you stand to lose out.

Companies who are demanding hybrid or return to office are unironically putting themselves in walls that will limit their competitiveness in the long run. Again this is what the market tells us, many companies are realizing they can save on expensive commercial rent/logistic overhead and hire more remote workers.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#319

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

> I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote.

Absolutely agree with productivity, partially agree with socializing. Socializing is still possible, but you lose out on things like impromptu conversations at the coffee maker and such. Also, if there's a big meeting, there can be one speaker at a time. In person, 60 people can be having 30 conversations in smaller groups. It's hard to pull off virtually.

The latter point is something the company I work for has been experimenting with lately (not development wise, just how we can emulate that within). Tandem offers an "overhear" option in their Tables feature, which is alright. More distracting for some reason than in real life though. Break out rooms are okay, but have more of a barrier than turning to your left.

Overall though, remote work rules and I don't think I'll ever go back.

Re: Remote startups will win the war for top talent

#320

I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote. It's difficult because people aren't putting thought into it. At my last big-co job the leadership just kept waiting for 'covid to be over' and not improving our remote work culture. Hybrid models will always struggle and 1/3/1 is going to be probably the best you can do. My company is fully remote, we embraced the GitLab model…

> I never really understood why people say productivity and socializing is difficult remote

For me, there is something about the physical presence of other people that slows me down (in a good way). With online interaction, I too find myself impatient, and eager to bring whatever I'm doing to a conclusion.

For example, around 20 years, I played a lot of go (the board game), both in-person and online. Online, I found myself playing impatiently and recklessly, especially if I was in the lead. Whereas in person it felt natural to take a long time, and I played better games and enjoyed myself much more in person.

If productivity and socializing works for you remotely, wonderful! Far be it from me to piss on your parade. But I for one found the obstacles to be quite serious.

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