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Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

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Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#391

Post by ogogmad »

kranke155 wrote: post #365
mandmandam wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he's right. And it has been this way for a long time. The way Corbyn and Assaange were demonized and smeared ought to have made it obvious - but that's the thing about controlling the entire media landscape. Even if it ought to be obvious, there are people telling you to ignore the truth tellers, and you've nowhere to read their exposes except social media, where in fact they are likely shunted down the algorithm…

The destruction of Corbyn as an “anti semite” was an incredible act of mass psychological warfare inflicted on the British public. An incredible feat, to all those involved, respect for their skill. I’d never seen anything quite like it before I moved to the Uk.

Didn't some of his own party members accuse him of anti-Semitism? There was a television documentary about it.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#392

Post by origin_path »

hotpotamus wrote: post #166
origin_path wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Perhaps for some reason your friends are disproportionately feckless cowards? I've met zero people in my life who have any fear of criticizing health systems, public or private. Perhaps the people I've met are just unusually heroic. And so your aunt is currently able to purchase a higher quality of care because she has the money to do so? And this is an option for all moneyed citizens of the UK?

You wouldn't know, would you, with an attitude like that? Look at this thread. "The NHS is a national religion" is a cliché because it's true. There are loads of comments saying people are irrational about it. The country has too many people who melt down and viciously attack anyone who tells the truth - the NHS is a crap idea, always was and needs to be abolished. Go canvassing in the North with that idea and see what happens.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#393

Post by origin_path »

cirrus-clouds wrote: post #164
origin_path wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what lots of people want - I can assure you, I know quite a few - but the British left attacks anyone so viciously and nastily that they aren't ever going to admit it to anyone seen in the vicinity of a Guardian. The NHS has collapsed since COVID. No, it isn't due to lack of funding, that's a lie. NHS funding has increased massively under the Conservatives who haven't talked about even limited privatisation fo…

NHS funding has increased massively under the Conservatives That is simply not true. The Conservatives came to power in 2010. Here's what the The King's Fund [1] has to say on funding: "In the decade following the global financial crisis in 2008, the health service faced the most prolonged spending squeeze in its history: between 2009/10 and 2018/19 health spending increased by an average of just 1.5% per year in rea…

You realise that this quote supports what I just said, right? It takes massive funding increases to consistently increase budgets year over year for over a decade by that much after inflation adjustment given how huge the NHS budget already is. Go on, compare the budgets between those periods in actual pound sterling terms and then think about how much more tax had to be raised to sustain that (or rather how much debt had to be issued).

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#394

Post by origin_path »

phtrivier wrote: post #233
origin_path wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what lots of people want - I can assure you, I know quite a few - but the British left attacks anyone so viciously and nastily that they aren't ever going to admit it to anyone seen in the vicinity of a Guardian. The NHS has collapsed since COVID. No, it isn't due to lack of funding, that's a lie. NHS funding has increased massively under the Conservatives who haven't talked about even limited privatisation fo…

I'm genuinely interested in the link to the data about the vaxx / unvaxxed split. I know the most ardent antivaxxers are going to explain every death in the next 30 years by the vaxx ; but the numbers would be so staggering that I suspect plain old counting would help.

Traveling today so don't have easy access to my bookmarks with that data (is heavily buried in UK govt websites) but here's an analysis of the excess death data that also shows ambulance call outs jump permanently and significantly in April 2021

https://nakedemperor.substack.com/p/massive-increases-in-exc...

A lot of it is due cardiac reasons. You can also look at when excess death went up in younger age ranges that weren't affected by COVID and see that it starts at the same time the vaccine programme reached them. Hard to explain as lockdowns given they'd been happening for a year by that time.

Edit: Here we go. here's an analysis of deaths by vaccine status for the UK:

https://bartram.substack.com/p/deaths-by-vaccination-status-...

N.b. The way you calculate the population size heavily affects the meaning of this data and the government itself doesn't know what the population is, so there's plenty to debate here, but you can see why the author concludes there should be an investigation. He uses a conservative pop estimate based on official NHS registrations (because the ons estimate is definitely wrong) and plots the graph of the difference by status at the end. So you can set that for everyone under 75 the vaccines appear to be making things worse not better.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#396

Post by origin_path »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #286
cirrus-clouds wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NHS funding has increased massively under the Conservatives That is simply not true. The Conservatives came to power in 2010. Here's what the The King's Fund [1] has to say on funding: "In the decade following the global financial crisis in 2008, the health service faced the most prolonged spending squeeze in its history: between 2009/10 and 2018/19 health spending increased by an average of just 1.5% per year in rea…

To put that 1.5% annual real-terms budget increase into context: In the same decade the proportion of people aged 65+ increased from 16% to 22%ish of the population, an increase of a third. Since these are the people who consume the vast majority of NHS resource, the actual age-adjusted funding has been shrinking steadily every year.

But we're not talking about whether budgets increased by as much as random HN commenters feel would be ideal, I said funding had increased massively i.e. in absolute terms, which it has.

Any discussion of the NHS budget has to accept this reality - the British state is already deep in deficit for decades and had built up incredible debts just trying to keep the NHS budget rising, which it always has. To say the NHS would works better with more money is simply to admit it's broken and can't be fixed, because the government can't even afford the current levels. Especially not after the attempts to stop COVID blew debt and inflation through the roof.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#397

Post by origin_path »

benj111 wrote: post #311
MagnumOpus wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and the excess deaths above help a lot in doing that. Still, while waiting for patients to die is an cheap way to shorten backlogs, it does leave not instill confidence…

Except people don't tend to die from needing a hip replacement or other quality of life surgeries. The urgent things tend to get done first.

They die of old age instead? Not really better. The point of the NHS is to treat people, if you have to wait three years for treatment that's the same thing as collapse, it's not really different from the user's perspective.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#398

Post by Marazan »

binbinbinbin wrote: post #347
Marazan wrote: post #329

The two main causes of excess excess death that Britian is seeing seeing are vascular issues and diabetes. Guess what two of the main long term effects we have seen with Covid are?

Then why is the UK in particular doing so badly with this? A more-likely scenario is that this is the outcome of prioritising Covid (and avoiding Covid) over all other healthcare since March 2020, which has been a relatively unique factor with how our NHS has handled the pandemic.

Scotland isn't seeing the same excess death surge (there's a rise but no where near England and Wales levels).

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#399

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #225
lotsofpulp wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reliance on foreign skilled health care labour. I think it is more accurate to say cheap labor.

No, we really did import a lot of skilled labour and did not train enough of our own people.

Not sure why my parent comment has been downvoted to zero points.

If you disagree, say why. One person bothered to do that and I agreed with their point.

Re: Silent crisis of soaring excess deaths in Britain is only tip of the iceberg

#400

Post by dogma1138 »

ErikCorry wrote: post #325
bhk wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There has been no drop in funding that might account for the recent "soaring excess deaths". Quite the opposite. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-... You speak of massive underfunding, but NHS funding has increased in real terms almost every single year since the 1950s: https://fullfact.org/health/spending-english-nhs/ "At the moment, UK public health spending is the equivalent of about 7%…

7% is not generous in an international comparison. It's on a par with Lithuania or Costa Rica. Denmark spends 10% on health care, Germany 11.7%, Italy 8.7%. https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/e26f669c-en/index.html?i... The NHS is also under huge pressure because of all the European health care professionals that left after Brexit (you won't read about that in the Telegraph) and the huge number of sick days caused b…

You are mixing figures here, OECD stats are for healthcare expenditures the UK currently spends about 12% of its GDP on healthcare and is aligned with most developed economies.

This is different to NHS funding alone.

Also comparing the UK where healthcare is predominantly a single payer system to countries like Germany isn’t apples to apples. Germany has a multi tiered private-public healthcare system and it’s not single payer.

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