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The erosion of the Mac experience

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Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#381

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Docker? After attemping to install dependencies and build GIS tools originating in the 90´s, I am so thankful for people who have published docker images of obscure software.

The students have to develop software using the framework, not just use the final program. I always found docker as a dev environment rather painful. Maybe I have to revisit.

Maybe https://www.vagrantup.com would be a better solution then vanilla docker

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#382

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FYI for anyone who doesn't know: that other shortcut is Command+` to cycle between windows of one application. It's totally nondiscoverable (I read about it here), but once I learned that, it felt amazingly intuitive to separate the concerns of application-switching and window-switching. And Command+` works consistently on MacOS, unlike on Windows where every app reimplements its own multiple-document interface and s…

It's right next to tab on most keyboards, so I would call that discoverable.

Only if you're using a US keyboard layout.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#383
post #43

The key point in this Twitter rant is that the SWEs who understood the Mac (and NEXTSTEP, for that matter) have aged out. Most everyone has retired or moved onto other opportunities. There's very few of them left at Apple. And they're often overruled by younger managers. Apple is hiring tons of fresh new SWEs who have no understanding, nor desire to understand "The Mac Way". I'm not saying this is right or wrong, the…

Your assertion about “The Mac Way” is simply false. The VP in charge of macOS is an ex-NeXT person; a lot of ex-NeXT and Apple people still work on it. macOS user experience continues to be driven from the UI design group and executives, as it always has been. Feel free to criticize the design direction, but understand that it’s fully top-down intentional, not something that just happens because individual software e…

Maybe different types of users need different user experiences, and Mac is the least flexible of the three major OSes.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#384
post #304
post #43

The key point in this Twitter rant is that the SWEs who understood the Mac (and NEXTSTEP, for that matter) have aged out. Most everyone has retired or moved onto other opportunities. There's very few of them left at Apple. And they're often overruled by younger managers. Apple is hiring tons of fresh new SWEs who have no understanding, nor desire to understand "The Mac Way". I'm not saying this is right or wrong, the…

80% the people working in Apple now were hired after the Steve Jobs's death. Which means that most of the old Mac, NEXTSTEP folks are likely all retired. Those that first put out Apple HIG, along with other software UX expert left as well. After Tim Cook fired Scott Forstall and named Jony as the CDO.

Most of the NeXT folks I worked with left many years ago. Perhaps generous stock options contributed to the exodus. Or perhaps once OS X was clicking along with a new Window Server and graphic sub-system, replete with an Objective-C-based Cocoa API, they felt like the work was complete.

There are nonetheless many of the old guard still there — presumably navigating the Swift-UI transition.

And Craig Federighi is, in my opinion, a very capable captain to be steering the OS ship for Apple.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#385
post #255
post #61

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I think Apple has already sailed the seas of no return. Another company that puts users first will eventually arise and take its place. Life is a cycle of highs and lows. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Microsoft and Apple, the duopoly who control nearly 100% of the consumer desktop OS market, were both founded in the 1970s. In comparison, Google was a relative "newcomer" in the late 1990s. Google and Apple control nearly 100% of the consumer mobile OS market. There are no challengers. 3 companies own all of personal computing. Oh yeah, these companies also collectively control the web browsers: Chrome, Safari, Edge…

It's not going to get better as Apple transforms into an advertising company, rather than a technology company.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#386
post #179

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This. People just are not building, crafting and using desktop apps specifically for Mac anymore. That ship has sailed. They either use their own frameworks and build on all 3 platforms, or use Electron. On a lot of daily things people use iOS. I am thinking what apps I actually use on my Mac the most. It’s Chrome, VSCode, Terminal. I still use Preview a lot though… I hope the Swift pushers won’t touch that . If they…

This. I had a contract a while back that meant I had to work on desktop Linux for the first time in years. The experience on my XPS13 is not as good as macOS[1]. It’s not far off though …and FOSS is always improving. They have the edge right now but if Apple keeps neglecting macOS, degrade it to be more like iOS[2] or keep adding rent seeking nagware, Linux will be “good enough” for me. 1. Seriously, why can’t I have…

Can’t answer the rest of it, but copy and paste works anywhere there’s a standard text field unless the developer has gone to the trouble of disabling it. There are ways to make it work in non-standard text fields as well. You should send bug reports to the developers of the apps where it’s not working, same as you would if it didn’t work in macOS apps.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#387

Putting myself in Apple's shoes: I just don't see the financial incentive to invest a whole lot in the native GUI story for the Mac in 2022 Regular people mostly use iOS. Many don't have traditional computers at all. That was originally the Mac's core market. It still has a strong professional market- but many of the serious professional tools (Adobe, Blender, IDEA, etc) use their own custom in-house GUI frameworks,…

The Mac is a nearly $40B annual business: https://www.statista.com/statistics/263428/apples-revenue-fr... It's small compared to iOS, sure, but I think it's still an important part of Apple's overall portfolio. It's currently what all of the iOS developers need to use. Its what Apple's own people use for their work. I guess the difference of opinion may turn on the phrase "invest a whole lot". I have no idea what kin…

I would also say that if Apple didn’t actually care about macOS, the money spent on it would probably be better spent on porting Xcode to Windows.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m using a windows machine for work and I hate it. Explorer and outlook change application icon depending on what you are doing. I can never find them when I alt-tab. I can never find anything in word or excel or any other application that use windows style menus. On Mac you at least get a real menu. I never got used to macOS’ alt-tab when I switched more than a decade ago, but now that I’m back on windows I find th…

> I can never find anything in word or excel or any other application that use windows style menus. On Mac you at least get a real menu. I’ll never understand why it’s so common for Windows and Linux GTK apps to go so far out of their way to avoid using a tried and true menubar. Hamburger menus are probably the most common substitute, and they’re strictly worse in every way, being basically junk drawers in software f…

And... it's always in the same place. And... all the standard common things are always in the exact same place with the exact same shortcuts.

I've been using Linux (KDE Plasma) now as my primary system for 5 years now, and it's practically impossible to build up a system-wide muscle memory. On Linux and Windows menus are all over the place. Things in the menus are all over the place. Shortcuts to them are all over the place. It's crazy making.

However, I've resisted going back to a Mac because it's getting perpetually worse year after year too. The "golden era" to me that I wish had been refined and iterated incrementally on is probably somewhere around Mac OS 10.6

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#389

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

Couldn't agree more. The UI is MacOS is actively anti-user in my opinion. E.g. menus that are not attached to the window, a task bar that hides the open windows, maximise that doesn't, "natural scrolling" that is unnatural if you use a mouse, no proper window snapping and layouting etc.

The only thing going for MacOS is the linux-like terminal. Now that Windows has that too (WSL) I see no advantage.

However, the hardware is nice. Way nicer than any windows dell or Asus or whatever I've had.

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