Nobody wants to teach anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#51

Post by justin66 » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:07 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #15

I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers N…

> when accounting for benefits and pension

That many teacher’s pensions require one to give up social security benefits makes the decision to teach more difficult, I would think, especially for those who are later in their working lives.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#52

Post by gbear605 » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:07 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #30

a-dub wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is a way of expressing respect in market economies, it's called money.

Money will not overcome the "those who can't, teach" sentiment that runs quite strongly in the US. There is a very strong anti-intelligence (not merely anti-intellectual) sentiment in this country. It will help, and we should certainly pay teachers more, but it isn't the whole solution.

More money will encourage more of “those who can” to switch to teaching, which will help to undermine the stereotype. There are already many “who can” who already teach, but they’re almost exclusively the ones who also intrinsically value teaching highly. A higher pay will help bring the ones who would be good teachers but are in a situation where they need to prioritize money.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#53

Post by ehnto » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #10

People do want to teach and get paid to do it. It’s called private schools. They charge what the market will bear for their quality and location, and they pay what the market rate is for teachers of the requisite quality that let them charge the rates they need. What confuddles people in education is the same thing that causes endless articles about housing, healthcare, inflation… it’s called “basic economics”. Just…

Do you feel that the private system is taking all of the good educators and administrators? America isn't the only country with a private/public school ecosystem, yet other countries are able to maintain quality public schooling while it seems America struggles.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#54

Post by p4bl0 » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:09 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #34

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #3

Teaching/training is quite difficult. I've done quite a bit of training (but not true teaching -there's a difference), over the years. My family is full of teachers. I have many friends that are teachers. It's amazing how "solutions" never seem to actually get around to simply paying teachers more, and maybe not expecting them to be child-rearers, in lieu of parents.

As long as we have tenure and the seniority system we aren’t going to see significantly higher pay. Virtually everyone else has a boss that judges his or her performance. Sometimes those judgments are wrong or unfair. Almost every institution has determined that’s still better than nothing. But somehow not schools.

> As long as we have tenure and the seniority system we aren’t going to see significantly higher pay.

There is no logic in this affirmation. There are no such direct links between tenure and pay.

Saying that only confirms what the article says on the American public feeling about teachers' pay.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#55

Post by dwater » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #15

I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers N…

Comparing teacher pay to the median wage isn’t an apples to apples comparison because the average teacher has between a bachelor’s degree and a master’s, a state certification with regular training and renewal requirements, and a good amount of professional experience. I was a high school teacher and when I left my salary went up by 50% on day one, passed 100% increase within 2 years, and tripled within 5 years. The median wage earner in a large city is probably paid hourly for service work.

I do agree that the single pay scale across all public school teachers is an issue. You will never get someone to teach high school math, science, or tech if salary is a significant consideration.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#56

Post by seibelj » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

mnd999 wrote: post #27

seibelj wrote: post #10

People do want to teach and get paid to do it. It’s called private schools. They charge what the market will bear for their quality and location, and they pay what the market rate is for teachers of the requisite quality that let them charge the rates they need. What confuddles people in education is the same thing that causes endless articles about housing, healthcare, inflation… it’s called “basic economics”. Just…

That’s a societal decision we have to make. Should all children have access to good education - i.e. should we invest in public schooling? Or should it be dependent on your parents ability to pay in which case lets go all in on private.

In my opinion, the voucher system is correct - keep funding public school through tax dollars, but give the parents a voucher for the amount to spend where they wish. If every parent in Boston received a $25,000 voucher to spend at the school they wished, competition would force public schools to improve or shut down as every school vied for the vouchers.

Unlike many on the left, who despise monopolies in business and ruthlessly hunt them down, yet worship monopolies the government has (like in public education), I think public dollars should be allocated to the parents to make decisions they feel are best for their children. Saying “just move if you don’t like your public school” betrays the reality of how difficult it is to relocate for the non-tech elite who can’t just work from anywhere.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#57

Post by orzig » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #15

I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers N…

This is the best reply so far. In the US, things (good and bad) vary dramatically between school districts, but everyone talks about “teachers” as this monolithic group.

In the Boston area it’s absolutely possible to exceed $100,000 salary. The pay scales are public, look it up yourself. I’m willing to believe many teachers are underpaid, and that those in Boston have legitimate gripes too, but we need to be clear about which context we’re discussing.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#58

Post by throwaway6734 » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #15

I realize this piece is more of a rant, and I won't hold it to a data accuracy standard it never pretended to have, but they pay issue is really misconstrued. Salaries in large urban districts are often well above area median, and when accounting for benefits and pension, quite impressive. In South Dakota and a number of states in the south and rural districts, yes it is another story, and it is bad. Also, teachers N…

It's still not worth the money. Ive spent time in the classroom in a large urban district and the job was twice as hard as my current software engineering job (for me) for literally half the pay

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#59

Post by p4bl0 » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

The very same problem exists in other countries. We have been having an outrageously similar situation in France for years already, so much that this article does a really good job at depainting the situation here in France too.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#60

Post by bradleyjg » Sun, Aug 21, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

p4bl0 wrote: post #54

bradleyjg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we have tenure and the seniority system we aren’t going to see significantly higher pay. Virtually everyone else has a boss that judges his or her performance. Sometimes those judgments are wrong or unfair. Almost every institution has determined that’s still better than nothing. But somehow not schools.

> As long as we have tenure and the seniority system we aren’t going to see significantly higher pay. There is no logic in this affirmation. There are no such direct links between tenure and pay. Saying that only confirms what the article says on the American public feeling about teachers' pay.

The link is public opinion.