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The erosion of the Mac experience

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Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#291

Post by incanus77 »

solarkraft wrote: post #290
incanus77 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. I don't keep a running list of this (and I feel like I've seen some, but can't find them now) so it's a little off the cuff... - Scrollbars not appearing until you attempt scrolling, so no indication that there is more content to scroll to. If you mouse-wheel scroll, then try to move over to click and drag, sometimes the scrollbar disappears before you can grab it. Yes, you can change this default, but... it's…

> Scrollbars I don't get it. If I want to see whether/how much I can scroll ... I try it. I appreciate only having to see the information when I actually need to see it instead of it distracting me otherwise. > Having to hover over the more inner portion of a notification to get its close button to appear This reminds me of a much worse thing regarding notifications. When you install an app, often you get a notificat…

Part of the scroll bar thing is an admittedly subtle old interaction cue, which is that the scroll bars are sized proportionally to how many screens of data there are. So in just glancing at a list of ten files, you can see that there are approximately 20-25 files total, with no interactions.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#292

Post by derefr »

account-5 wrote: post #283
derefr wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The personal solution is to not buy monitors from manufacturers that fail to put EDID chips in their HDMI signal path. The set of manufacturers that do this is well-documented.

Oh, ok, so the OP should, as a consumer, know about all monitor standards before purchasing one. Good to know.

Let's shorten that to: buy reputable monitors, from brand names you recognize. You wouldn't buy a no-name car.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#293

Post by philistine »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #288
lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

because it's easy to manage packages using brew, Windows has the... winget which is all but abandoned. For the longest time there was no such thing as WSL so Mac had a serious advantage for us who migrated between Linux and Mac. And as you've mentioned I've had so many quality control issues with Windows computers including Dell and Asus that eventually I just said fuck it I'd rather spend 3 to 4 grand on a machine t…

Hear hear for Homebrew, who in my mind is single-handedly responsible for getting Apple to stop shipping old versions of scripting languages. We can soon, with Ventura, link the Brew version of Python, and Ruby, and everything.

Hear hear !

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#294

Post by Apocryphon »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #95
what-imright wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was against dogma. It’s a changing world and the perspective and input of the young is valuable. What exactly are you moving on to? Ubuntu? Windows? Behind macOS is the most valuable company in the world adding fixes, features and security patches. There isn’t any other computing solution today that can deliver what Apple does.

I can't see Linux (or other GNU-desktop-nixlike) becoming a full-time macOS replacement for me because no DE works the way I'd like it to. You've got KDE (Windowslike), GNOME (what if iPadOS were adapted into a desktop OS), XFCE (middle ground between Windows and Classic Mac OS), and Cinnamon (Classic Windowslike), and Pantheon (what if iPadOS looked like Mac OS X Mavericks). None that are an obvious choice for someo…

Time to support Haiku and bringing back the BeOS experience!

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#295

Post by paulryanrogers »

account-5 wrote: post #256
joshspankit wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost agreed. There are passthrough dongles that will report whatever EDID you want. However, I think the original complaint is still valid. No highly-technical one-off solution solves the fundamental issue of general usability.

All usability comes down to what you're used to. I can't use Mac OS because I don't use Mac OS. Sit me down in front of a Mac and it is practically useless to me, nothing works right, same thing with iPhones. They don't "just work" for me. This is not to say I couldn't learn, if forced to. That's what happened when I started using windows, Linux, and Android after all. For general usability you need agreement on one…

Mostly agree. IME it really depends on the person. And Microsoft has valued backward compatibly and pragmatic solutions almost to a fault at times. I'd day that's been changing since Windows 8. Still as a DOS-then-Windows native I appreciate their approach.

Job's insistence on a one button mouse for decades, then a one button phone bordered on the absurd as devices grew in capability. Yet it did serve a portion of the market well enough. Even if it kept advanced features virtually impossible to discover with being taught. Doubtful my boomer parents will ever learn swipe gestures, yet my 4yo is doing them now.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#296

Post by paulryanrogers »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #286
bsagdiyev wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is not a stock macOS app. Which is what the point was. Stock macOS sucks with window and monitor management. I run three screens and it's aggravating sometimes.

And windows file explorer copying was inconsistent and buggy as hell from nearly a decade, but installing teracopy fixed that issue. As long as an OS is plug-in friendly, stock issues that can be easily remedied don't bother me. If you're using multiple monitors and you're not using the rectangle app... that's kinda on you. I switched to Mac after using windows for decades and in less than a week I solved my windows…

> If you're using multiple monitors and you're not using the rectangle app... that's kinda on you.

This attitude strikes me as snobbery. People aren't born knowing the best 3rd party alternative to their OS's shortcomings, and some have no control over what apps they can run.

Windows 10 has pretty good built in window management. IMO better than MacOS. I say this as a Mac and Rectangle user. (Though only Mac because of Safari exclusively working on it. I prefer Linux.)

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#297

Post by 1over137 »

cc101 wrote: post #85

I'm facing a bitter conflict with Mac App Review. I feel so poorly about this that I can't sleep, and my mind is in turmoil. After 37 years writing Mac software, I'm wondering if there is anything left of the Mac and of the Apple spirit that made such a difference in my life. I hate to give up my current work (5 years and 13,000 lines of code), but in a sense it would be liberating to be free of Apple.

cc101 I was in that exact situation a few years ago! I feel you! I'm still writing Mac software, but now spending more and more time learning about different technologies with an eye on getting out one day.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#298

Post by woleium »

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

> - Why does finder sometimes open in a sub folder as the "top level", then it's a total pain to move up to where you want.

you can right click on the folder icon at the very top of the window to get a drop-down of all folders going down to the root.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#299

Post by pjmlp »

bodhiandphysics wrote: post #285
pjmlp wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only when one equates "developers === UNIX", which is why so many still don't get Apple developer's culture, even with two decades of OS X. C++ on the Mac was already a great development experience with Toolbox and Metrowerks PowerPlant. Copland was going to be fully based on C++. If you look close enough to NeXT's history and how Steve Jobs thought about UNIX beards, NeXT only supported UNIX as means to compete agai…

I’m sure mac was a wonderful dev environment for developing Mac GUI apps. But was it a wonderful dev environment for developing high performance numerical code? Or web servers? Or robotics? Or... Most developers don’t write GUI apps.

Plenty of developers always wrote applications for the Mac platform.

As for numerical software, Mathematica and Matlab always had a place on the Mac.

What is about all that craziness to equate "developer" with UNIX?

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#300

Post by cercatrova »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #288
lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

because it's easy to manage packages using brew, Windows has the... winget which is all but abandoned. For the longest time there was no such thing as WSL so Mac had a serious advantage for us who migrated between Linux and Mac. And as you've mentioned I've had so many quality control issues with Windows computers including Dell and Asus that eventually I just said fuck it I'd rather spend 3 to 4 grand on a machine t…

Abandoned? I use winget every day along with brew, they both work fine.
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