Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The erosion of the Mac experience

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 490 posts

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#261

Post by davrosthedalek »

noughtme wrote: post #129
davrosthedalek wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am the "analysis software coordinator" for a nuclear physics experiment (MUSE). The software framework we use was originally developed by me, on a macbook pro, mainly, targeting both MacOS and Linux. We have to onboard new students regularly, and it's quite a software stack to compile (Geant4, root, helper libs, our framework). 5-10 years ago, I was happy if a new student was on Mac. Slap homebrew on it, install th…

Docker? After attemping to install dependencies and build GIS tools originating in the 90´s, I am so thankful for people who have published docker images of obscure software.

The students have to develop software using the framework, not just use the final program. I always found docker as a dev environment rather painful. Maybe I have to revisit.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#262

Post by lastangryman »

rubslopes wrote: post #243
lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

> Why does finder sometimes open in a sub folder as the "top level", then it's a total pain to move up to where you want. OH God, I hate that so much. Can't understand the reason behind this behavior.

It's infuriating. Comes across as patronising, like Apple assuming the concept of a disk represented a tree of folders and files, and I am currently viewing a specific position in that tree, is too complex for me to understand.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#263

Post by 7speter »

7speter wrote: post #234
hammyhavoc wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does indeed make you wonder considering the top composers are on Windows running Cubase/Nuendo, almost everybody in game dev is on Windows or Linux, and most of Hollywood's VFX teams are on Linux or Windows integrating with Da Vinci Resolve.

Yet apple released a $6000 mac pro (that when fully specced, came out to be ~$60000, iirc), a $5000 monitor that competed with monitors almost used exclusively by Hollywood production houses and an optional $1000 stand for said monitor. I guess that was 2019 and things have changed?

You’re absolutely right. It just seems that apples market in Hollywood could begin to dwindle because all of the alternatives. I guess they can sell a apple silicon mac pro on speed, but what about the ease of customization that linux offers these companies. I think I’ve read that a lot of these production companies develop their own Linux distro, and probably software, and extensions (for the likes of davinci resolve). Is the raw speed advantage of their chips going to outweigh all the investment these companies have made in their previous solutions? I feel like a variation of this question floated along in the time after the announcement of the 2019 macpro as well.

Anyways, I’m not really in disagreement with you, I think, just writing some thoughts out.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#264

Post by kcplate »

echelon wrote: post #81
mfcl wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use a single Apple product. What am I missing?

Remember 2000-2005 Microsoft that tried to lock you into Internet Explorer and was deeply into this thing called "trusted computing"? That's what you're missing. You're required to sign in for updates so they can track you. No software patches without monitoring, I guess. No way to remove iTunes or stop Safari from trying to take over again and again. Even if you don't want music to open that way. Steve Balmer would…

> You shouldn't need a 3rd party plugin to manage window placement.

If it’s a feature you want, and there are multiple ways of handling it, why not go with a third party app with a windows placement scheme that works for you? I do.

>It shouldn't be difficult to navigate to a directory via a path or run a program

It’s not. I bet I can run any program on my Mac in 6 keystrokes or less. I easily navigate via paths.

>have the file browser automatically resize its icon view.

Personally this sounds like an extreme edge case preference to me. I would hate this behavior

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#265

Post by derefr »

kyriakos wrote: post #258
derefr wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I attach a non Mac external monitor to a new MacBook Pro from work and the text is super blurry. Much googling later and I need to use something called Better Display to create a virtual display, and project that to my monitor That’s not the correct solution. The correct solution is for the monitor manufacturer to stop reporting an EDID that identifies their monitor as a TV (and thereby forces the OS to default to…

Wouldn't that mean windows is superior in handling those monitors by applying the solution so the user won't need to go looking? I understand the monitor manufacturers are at fault but the OS tries to be as compatible as possible and handles the hardware.

No—Windows takes a strictly worse approach. macOS [and Linux] give you “some [not to spec] monitors have very slightly blurry text”; but Windows gives you “some TVs just plain don’t work at all.”

Note how I didn’t say that the TVs are not-to-spec; that’s because the EDID spec allows TVs to just not report an EDID (TVs are low-margin, and that’s one fewer chip on the signal path), where the video source then must assume some standard default modes (e.g. 1080p@60 YUV 4:2:2.) But monitors, meanwhile, must report an EDID. Why?

Because all this only applies over HDMI; and HDMI is a protocol for talking to TVs first-and-foremost, which is why the EDID spec assumes YUV as the fallback.

Monitors generally have DisplayPort inputs; and if you plug Windows or macOS into a monitor over DisplayPort, it’ll always go SRGB, because YUV isn’t a video mode the DisplayPort protocol can even carry.

So when a monitor has an HDMI input, it’s essentially doing “TV compatibility” over that input—and it needs to report its capabilities with an EDID, lest the video source think it’s a TV and send base TV spec signals to it.

Which all makes the situation even more ridiculous: there are TVs that Windows can’t talk to over HDMI, despite the HDMI connection implying. and the EDID spec explicitly stating, that Windows should make the fallback/safety assumption that it’s talking to a TV.

Also keep in mind that this is a prisoner’s dilemma: the only reason that monitor manufacturers are able to “get away with” being nonconformant to the EDID spec is because of Windows’ leniency. Windows is the “defector” here. If Windows stopped allowing it, then nobody would be allowing it, and so the monitor manufacturers would have to shape up.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#266

Post by kcplate »

jdgoesmarching wrote: post #197
1-6 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taking apart my Dyson today to clean it out. I was thinking that it was elegant and useful. I sort of like the company because it doesn’t attempt to get in the way and just provides a nice experience for a tad higher price. Then I thought vacuum cleaners have existed for a while now. There’s the Whirlwind, Bissel, Kirby, Electrolux, Hoover, Oreck, Dyson, and most recently iRobot. Each generation had their brand…

This is funny because I just went down a vacuum research rabbit hole and Dysons are despised by many techs and aficionados. Bagless vacuums in general are seen as a downgrade, and Dyson was the biggest hand in pushing their popularity. My favorite is one vacuum tech who said Dyson’s biggest innovation was having a clear chamber that showed you the moving dust. Not much utility, but great product marketing. But becaus…

> a grizzled vacuum industry veteran coming by to put me in my place

…Or a wet behind the ears vacuum industry rookie who read a Wikipedia article yesterday

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#267

Post by kcplate »

hnburnsy wrote: post #30
happyopossum wrote: post #20

I have been hearing this for almost 2 decades now, as long as I’ve been following the ‘community’. Meanwhile, in my real life, my parents, wife, kids, and friends, are all happier than they ever ever been with their latest MacBooks and macOS. Things like iCloud photo syncing, universal control, and airdrop feel boring to us, but they make the computing experience feel pretty much like living in the future for them.

Nothing against you and your family, but I am disappointed when for example, the Netflix app shows 2 rows of 6 titles when probably 100 could fit on the 3024-by-1964 native resolution display. Heck even the top 10 list scrolls to the right and only shows 1 through 4.

Seems your complaint is more about Netflix’s UX design choices…

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#268

Post by kcplate »

shp0ngle wrote: post #114
brundolf wrote: post #63

Putting myself in Apple's shoes: I just don't see the financial incentive to invest a whole lot in the native GUI story for the Mac in 2022 Regular people mostly use iOS. Many don't have traditional computers at all. That was originally the Mac's core market. It still has a strong professional market- but many of the serious professional tools (Adobe, Blender, IDEA, etc) use their own custom in-house GUI frameworks,…

This. People just are not building, crafting and using desktop apps specifically for Mac anymore. That ship has sailed. They either use their own frameworks and build on all 3 platforms, or use Electron. On a lot of daily things people use iOS. I am thinking what apps I actually use on my Mac the most. It’s Chrome, VSCode, Terminal. I still use Preview a lot though… I hope the Swift pushers won’t touch that . If they…

Yes, Apple folks that are listening…please do not screw up preview.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#269

Post by pjmlp »

lastangryman wrote: post #133

I feel like I may be the only developer that prefers Windows to MacOs. I really, really just do not get the "Mac Experience". It feels so clunky and counter intuitive. - Why does the alt tab equivalent cycle through applications first, and I need another shortcut to cycle through the windows of that application? When I have an IDE with 5x instances, hosting different projects, it's a pain switching back to the projec…

> Mac hardware feels great, but I just cannot understand why it's the preferred developer platform.

Depends what the word developer means....

In the context of Apple ecosystem developer is quite good, in the context of Windows or game console developer not great, for embedded developer depends on the luck of hardware vendor support for macOS, in the context of certified UNIX developer, it gets the job done.

Re: The erosion of the Mac experience

#270

Post by nbzso »

firecall wrote: post #189
nbzso wrote: post #35

Apple should accept the old Mac OS X HIG principles and make them mandatory. The UX is so broken, that in some moments I have Windows Vista reminiscence. But hey, I am an old user. I should move away and say: Yes Apple, you know better than me.:)

It's not Vista bad! LOL Stage Manager is a disaster though! Like, really horrible as a desktop macOS feature IMHO. I feel like Apple are trying to shoehorn bad iPad features into macOS to unify them. Instead of making iPadOS more like macOS and therefore more useful generally. I dont know - something is screwed up in Apple's strategic thinking. They admitted as much though with their back-to-the-mac push a few years…

>But then the computing world isn't the same, and my needs aren't the same.

Strongly disagree, the needs are the same, the interfaces and information flow are different.

This is not a reason to abandon basic UX and UI principles. On the desktop, the paradigm is still a mouse (pointer device) and keyboard. Accessibility and Usability requirements are the same. I had more pleasure in recent years from customized KDE environment than the chaotic changes in macOS.

Unifying UX for desktop computers with UX for touch devices is an absurd proposition.

Post reply on HN