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Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

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Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#171

Post by bobiny »

Deegy wrote: post #164
uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

I own a small business that was crushed by iOS14. It sucks. At the same time I respect apple's dedication to privacy, even if it is profit motivated.

Can you elaborate how your business was crushed by iOS14?

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#172

Post by Nextgrid »

vineyardmike wrote: post #135
uncomputation wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read about Ramon and his wiener dog ramps when this was first submitted to HN months ago and I said the same thing then as I am now. It’s bullshit. If Ramon wants to sell wiener dog ramps, then the system to do that should be “buy adspace when people search for wiener dog,” advertise on wiener dog enthusiast forums, sponsor videos/meetups, etc. Not “create an all knowing digital surveillance system tying toge…

Yea but people don’t spend a lot of time on weiner dog forums, even weiner dog owners. People want to advertise to customers where the customers actually go . Customers actually go to Facebook not weiner dog forums. Don’t use Facebook if you don’t like the value proposition. I’m guessing most people who complain about tracking on HN don’t use Facebook properties anyways.

> People want to advertise to customers where the customers actually go

But do those customers want to see the advertising? People primarily go on Facebook to connect & keep up with their friends.

Being able to advertise is not some kind of right, nor is being in business. If your business isn't sustainable without stalking people (or paying a third-party to do that for you), maybe you shouldn't be in business.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#173

Post by scarface74 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #133
hbn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook likes to demonstrate how useful they are by showing traffic/revenue of people who advertise through them vs people who don't, and then say "look! The people who do it are making way more money!" Ignoring the fact that they intentionally suppress businesses who don't pay them. It's like if the mafia came by your business every week to collect their $1000 to not break your kneecaps and say "look at all the hap…

How do they suppress businesses that don’t pay? By not advertising for them for free? That’s a stretch to compare it to the mafia…

If I have a page for my business and people explicitly follow my page to get updates, Facebook will still not surface content from my page as frequently to my followers without paying them.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#174

Post by donedealomg »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #118
uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

> But it crushed FB ... FB had $11B in profit in Q1 on $30B of revenue, and that's after massive drop due to R&D expenses; it's hardly crushed.

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#175

Post by bjtitus »

smoldesu wrote: post #158
Jcowell wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advertising gets a bad rap, but I like to believe I am providing value to my customers and they wouldn't have found my product otherwise. Who was hurt? Probably. But if the means in which you can connect with those customers requires a surveillance apparatus that infringes on the privacy of the unconsented than perhaps the question that should be asked is does your business have a greater right to exists than the p…

It's a moot-point. Switching away from AdSense isn't going to protect you from surveillance, it's just going to change the pool of customers buying your information. All your iCloud data is a few clicks away for most NSA employees, and I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that they also have root capabilities on your iPhone. No matter how you slice it, Apple isn't going to give you privacy. The data you hold near-…

What part of opt-in advertising IDs is only lip service to privacy? Seems entirely about privacy and very little about security. Similarly, iCloud Private Relay is completely privacy focused and isn't really about security at all. Both of these things provide real value to consumers and dramatically limit data collection as evidenced by reports from Facebook and many others in recent quarters.

NSA data collection isn't anywhere close to equivalent to private companies storing it. The NSA programs could be shut down if the political will existed. Private companies with all of this data have absolutely zero oversight under US law at the moment.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#176

Post by CharlesW »

vineyardmike wrote: post #133
hbn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook likes to demonstrate how useful they are by showing traffic/revenue of people who advertise through them vs people who don't, and then say "look! The people who do it are making way more money!" Ignoring the fact that they intentionally suppress businesses who don't pay them. It's like if the mafia came by your business every week to collect their $1000 to not break your kneecaps and say "look at all the hap…

How do they suppress businesses that don’t pay? By not advertising for them for free? That’s a stretch to compare it to the mafia…

The mafia metaphor seems pretty on the nose to me. If you have a page, its posts will not regularly appear in followers' feeds — that is, the feeds of people who've explicitly signaled that they want to see your content — unless you give Facebook their vig.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#177

Post by malshe »

Yet another Twitter thread without any supporting evidence for the numbers. The claim here is that Apple "surpassed" $3.5 billion in annual revenue from the ad network. This is the headline so obviously I would like to know how the author got this number. However, all we get is irrelevant information.

Below m3at has linked to the original article. It says Apple's ad revenue in 2019 was $500 million. Source? It links to an article on another website, which linked to a 2018 AppleInsider article (https://appleinsider.com/articles/18/10/22/apple-looking-at-...). That article states:

"An analyst is predicting that Apple's Search Ad business will generate $500 million in fiscal year 2018 alone"

Somehow this estimate from 2018 is now suddenly the actual ad revenue for Apple in 2019. Next, I checked where the $3.5 billion number comes from. The closest I could get to this number is from this Bloomberg article: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...

It claims:

"It’s [Apple's ads group] generating about $4 billion in revenue annually"

Again, there is no source for this information. So we are discussing a Twitter thread that's designed to generate outrage. The irony is that it did not get much traction on Twitter but found its audience at HN!

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#178

Post by mrweasel »

How is that even possible? I use Apple products daily. iPhone, Mac and an AppleTV, where is Apple ad network even a thing? I see someone mention the stock app in macOS, there's typically an ad in the App Store search (which kinda suck) and then there's the in app ads. In app has ads are pretty much a give away that the app is going to suck, so I don't bother with apps that doesn't have a price. If nothing else the ads will always look misplaced and detract from the UI, making me want to use it less.

My point is: You see so few ads in the Apple ecosystem that I seriously question if those $3.5B is correct. Still, I'd prefer no ads, and I fear that Apple will be forced to ramp up the ads, once the shareholders see it as a major profit center to be exploited.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#179

Post by kderbyma »

it's amazing....windows turned to ads...mac suddenly takes over and becomes massive in the personal computer space.....sure M1...but imho...it was because of how aggressive Microsoft became with its adware....

people want freedom....now Apple is about to step in big gaping hole it should have seen coming but the glittering pile of gold is distracting them...

3-5 years...washed up?

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#180

Post by Cederfjard »

pessimizer wrote: post #168
reaperducer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was hurt? Someone too lazy to buy ads directly. If you know your audience, then you already know the places where you should advertise. Contact them directly. I've placed ads directly with dozens and dozens of web sites, podcasts, vloggers, and others. Very often they're more than happy to take your money because they get to keep all of it, instead of a tiny percentage sent back to them by Google, Facebook, etc.…

> If you know your audience, then you already know the places where you should advertise. And if your audience is a very odd niche, and you can't find where they congregate, go old school and make a place for them to congregate. If you can't figure out how to market your wiener dog slide without facebook, create a weiner dog site with information about weiner dog health, pictures of weiner dogs, stories about weiner…

That’s way more difficult than just asking Facebook who already knows, though. You could go out of business before you manage to build that audience, if you ever would have.

I’m not saying that makes Facebook’s invasion of their users’ privacy alright (I personally haven’t pondered it enough to have a well-thought-out opinion), but I really disagree with the grandparent comment that the only businesses that suffered negatively from Apple’s move did so because they were lazy.

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