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Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

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Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#131

Post by webmobdev »

uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

> ... consumers (1) prefer not to be tracked (go figure!) ...

And that means from Apple too!

Note that "tracking" includes data collection. And this is where Apple's duplicity on privacy really annoys me - Apple has never stopped data collection of their users data. Instead they mislead their users by just informing you with a popup that your data can be used for personalised ads, but you can opt out it - opt out of personalised ads, not from the data collection part ( https://9to5mac.com/2021/09/02/apple-personalized-ads-target... ). And even this happened because French regulators started an anti-trust investigation into how Apple gave itself an exception (by ensuring that the "Personalised ads" options is enabled by default on ios) while blocking everyone else ( https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/09/french-antitrust-complaint-al... ).

So let's not be under any illusion that Apple is "protecting our privacy" by blocking others. They are just protecting their bottom lines by blocking their competitors. All this PR spin on how Apple blocking Facebook and Google from tracking is good for the consumers is bullshit, when all you are doing is replacing Facebook and Google for Apple! Remember that once they have our data, all they have to do in the future is to update their terms of services to use it as they want. This kind of creeping encroachment is why we need to strong data privacy laws and regulations to prevent even companies like Apple from abusing their consumers trust, and create a more fair market.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#132

Post by mmis1000 »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #40
dgs_sgd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers are mind boggling. Airpods alone does more revenue than Twitter, Spotify, and Square combined [1]. And that was back in 2020.. [1] https://www.acumenfinancial.co.uk/advice/airpods-revenue-vs-...

I wanted to love Airpods, but the fall out of my ears, even when I'm sitting still. The linked article doesn't mention Beats By Dre, so I'm guessing Beats sales are not included in that $23B/year number. I wonder what is the annual for Beats. I bought a pair of the Powerbeats Pro that go over the ear & I quite like them.

> but the fall out of my ears,

I guess it's just how true-wireless headphones work. It is designed for most common shaped ears. And if your ear did not meet it. All you can do is finding something else.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#133

Post by vineyardmike »

hbn wrote: post #90
uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

Facebook likes to demonstrate how useful they are by showing traffic/revenue of people who advertise through them vs people who don't, and then say "look! The people who do it are making way more money!" Ignoring the fact that they intentionally suppress businesses who don't pay them. It's like if the mafia came by your business every week to collect their $1000 to not break your kneecaps and say "look at all the hap…

How do they suppress businesses that don’t pay? By not advertising for them for free? That’s a stretch to compare it to the mafia…

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#134

Post by hyuuu »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #59
jsnell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is Apple's privacy policy on ads: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/apple-advertisin... > We create segments, which are groups of people who share similar characteristics, and use these groups for delivering targeted ads. > We may use information such as the following to assign you to segments: > ... The music, movies, books, TV shows, and apps you download ... > ... The topics and categories of the st…

> We may use information such as the following to assign you to segments My take is that this information is used to give you some sort of cohort identifier that is itself devoid of PII.

dont all ad platforms work this way?

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#135

Post by vineyardmike »

uncomputation wrote: post #38
fancl20 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a "narrative", there is quite a lot data back that this is a fact. You can argue that you trust and fell comfortable to give apple the power of crushing any other small businesses they don't care based on Apple's own company decision. BTW, you can here the same story from small businesses' narrative: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/17/1087425495/tech-giants-and-ti...

Yeah, I read about Ramon and his wiener dog ramps when this was first submitted to HN months ago and I said the same thing then as I am now. It’s bullshit. If Ramon wants to sell wiener dog ramps, then the system to do that should be “buy adspace when people search for wiener dog,” advertise on wiener dog enthusiast forums, sponsor videos/meetups, etc. Not “create an all knowing digital surveillance system tying toge…

Yea but people don’t spend a lot of time on weiner dog forums, even weiner dog owners.

People want to advertise to customers where the customers actually go. Customers actually go to Facebook not weiner dog forums.

Don’t use Facebook if you don’t like the value proposition. I’m guessing most people who complain about tracking on HN don’t use Facebook properties anyways.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#136

Post by vineyardmike »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #105
fancl20 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two seperate facts: 1. Apple did use their market power crush small companies. 2. Facebook does have an awful privacy history. So the question is, do you think improving Facebook's privacy must hurt small companies? Another example, Google is working very closely with UK's Competition and Markets Authority to make sure the plan of replacing third-party cookies won't punch other companies at their faces.

These are not separate facts. FB and Google have a global surveillance network to track people which is 1) awful for privacy and 2) makes it easier to serve niche ads to people. Apple is prioritizing user-privacy which necessarily means it is more difficult for advertisers to place their niche ads. You can frame it as "crush small companies" if you want. But that framing is just as valid as "Apple's narrative". Third…

> Apple is prioritizing user-privacy which necessarily means it is more difficult for advertisers to place their niche ads.

…while rolling out their own alternative, complete with user tracking.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#137

Post by webmobdev »

uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

> What he calls Apple’s “narrative” is actually their substantiated history of privacy-protecting technologies. Not just tracking, but iCloud Private Relay, Hide my Email, iMessage E2E encryption, keeping many things on-device only.

All these so called "privacy" features are also designed to help Apple data mine your personal data too ... the more data you funnel through Apple servers, the more they know about you and the less data their competitors have.

Remember that once they have our data, all they have to do in the future is to update their terms of services to use it as they want. This kind of creeping encroachment is why we need to strong data privacy laws and regulations to prevent even companies like Apple from abusing their consumers trust, and create a more fair market. Otherwise all that is happening is that you are cheering for the replacement of Facebook and Google with Apple ...

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#138

Post by tobyjsullivan »

adamsmith143 wrote: post #73
plantain wrote: post #68

> But it crushed [snip] 1000s of small businesses in the process. There's a lot of comments here suggesting this is a narrative from FB/Snap, but it really isn't. I was previously able to target adverts directly to the tiny audience of potential users of my product, and the return on those adverts was nearly 10x. Overnight it entirely evaporated as a source of new customers and I don't know how I'd build a niche busi…

Operating a business with a single point of failure is never wise.

Operating a business with a single point of failure is a risk to be considered in the risk:reward analysis. For many businesses, it is a reasonable risk that enables unique solutions.

It's important to observe that the parent didn't suggest regretting building that business even though the customer-acquisition channel evaporated. They merely said that option is no longer viable for future businesses.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#139

Post by vineyardmike »

shuckles wrote: post #60
cycomanic wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that narrative is that apple does not apply the same rules to themselves. I actually agree with apple tracking should be optional, however why should apple get a free pass?

Apple does not track your activity across unrelated apps, websites, or the real world. They can offer personalized ads based on your interactions with Apple, which is not tracking, and they allow you to turn off that personalization. What rule are they exempting themselves from?

> They can offer personalized ads based on your interactions with Apple,

Except apple has repeatedly claimed that everything on your iPhone including 3p apps is owned by apple.

Re: Apple surpassed $3.5B in annual revenue from its ad network

#140

Post by ksec »

uncomputation wrote: post #24

> But it crushed FB, Snap, and 1000s of small businesses in the process. Ironically, this is far more of a narrative than this guy’s idea of Apple’s “narrative.” The idea that banning user tracking hurts small businesses was FB’s narrative to try and get backlash against Apple for its tracking crackdown. That genuinely is a narrative because from Apple’s decision we have seen that consumers (1) prefer not to be track…

iCloud Private Relay, Hide my Email, all happened after the ATT (AppTrackingTransparency). And if you read ATT carefully it is designed fist and foremost against Ads. Not Privacy.

And the opt OUT of Personalised Ads? When did HN's narrative changed that opting out was ok? Or even Ads were not evil? I can assure you 95% of comments in the past 5 to 6 years on HN front page with Ads were all religiously Anti-Ads.

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