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Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

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Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#651
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some ways, Visa and Mastercard are the privatized court systems of the internet. Agreed. A dispute resolution mechanism baked-in would go a long way toward making crypto a more viable alternative, especially if it delivered more effective justice than the credit card companies' stale policies and their opaque decision makers who don't really give a crap.

some arbitrary "justice algorithm" OTOH would "give a crap" ? I mean you are indicating an algorithmic system towards dispute resolution that just takes the bits from one party or the other, right? having "people" do it means you have authoritarian figures involved which I thought not having that was the whole point of crypto.

No, I'm not envisioning an algorithmic approach.

Systems of justice are probably the earliest institutions of civilization, and have evolved over millenia. There's lots of runway to learn from what's worked and what hasn't.

A potential starting point might be an arbitration approach where multiple parties are selected at random from a pool of candidates who gradually build reputation as fair and impartial adjudicators. They'd review evidence and arguments independantly and issue their vote for the verdict.

Commerce, including crypto, is as much about people as it is anything else.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

credit cards provides plenty of benefits to the customer which debit cards won't. Fraud protection, charge backs. This in turn, makes consumers use more credit cards stimulating the entire business economy

I get the same protection on my debit card as I do a credit card here in Australia. Fraud protection, chargebacks, tap to pay and chip in card. In fact over here, Credit Cards incur more fees for the business than debit cards. In all my years of being alive, I've never understood the need for a Credit Card.

I was the same until recently. Nowadays I don't see a good reason for not using a credit card over a debit card. My bank charges me like $2 a month for a Visa. My Mastercard is free and has a tiny cashback. It's not gonna make me a millionaire, but so far I haven't experienced any downsides.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that. However you must accept cash to settle a debt. It's literally printed on every bill.

Why couldn't someone use a prepaid card instead of cash?

For one thing, they cost extra to buy and use, sometimes more than the person may have in cash to begin with.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#654
post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the same protection on my debit card as I do a credit card here in Australia. Fraud protection, chargebacks, tap to pay and chip in card. In fact over here, Credit Cards incur more fees for the business than debit cards. In all my years of being alive, I've never understood the need for a Credit Card.

I was the same until recently. Nowadays I don't see a good reason for not using a credit card over a debit card. My bank charges me like $2 a month for a Visa. My Mastercard is free and has a tiny cashback. It's not gonna make me a millionaire, but so far I haven't experienced any downsides.

That's fair, I must be lucky in that I don't have a monthly or annual card fee for my Visa debit.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an important difference here: bank accounts are not credit. If my card is stolen and charges are racked up, I'm no poorer until the fraud is detected and resolved. You don't spend cash when you use a credit card, you spend credit. There isn't a legal remedy for this.

So a credit card is doable, but a credit account is beyong the capabilities of human civilisation. Its like breaking the light barrier

What would the difference be between this hypothetical “credit account” with payment card attached to it and a credit card?

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#656

I'm pretty confident Visa's dominance is a completely natural monopoly. There are plenty of 3rd party payment options (Amex and Diners' are still both fairly widely accepted) and nothing is stopping consumers from having multiple cards. But I think the network effects are too strong and we are seeing a pretty normal Pareto distribution. Even if you added 20 new market entrants with good coverage, consumers and busine…

Here in Japan there has been an explosion in QR code payment services over the past few years since the barrier to entry is so low (and traditionally credit card payments have had relatively low uptake compared to the west so it's seen as a wide open market)

It's extremely common to be confronted with a display like this at the register of a chain store detailing the bewildering array of supported payment options https://i.imgur.com/jmYrgHR.jpg

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never heard of any protection like this in the EU banking system. If you transfer money to a scammer it's simply gone. It sucks for the 0,0001% of people who get scammed some time but is it really needed that the bank takes on this role?

If you initiate it - yes. If the seller charges by IBAN via SEPA - you get 8 weeks to chargeback, no questions asked

Aren't IBANs entry only. You can only debit the IBAN.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#658
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen posts on Reddit[1] that say that cashless establishments in NYC will just give you your food for free if you try to pay with cash. Never tried it though. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/vcebns/im_an_ex_employ...

I dunno about US law but in the UK the law of legal tender requires you to accept payment of a debt in (exact) cash and if you've already eaten the food then a debt would certainly exist. This would not apply in a shop of course as they could just refuse to sell you the goods.

Requiring card only payments if you pay after you eating sounds like a recipe for confusing customers. The only places I've seen doing card only are coffee shops and quick serve restaurants where you pay before you get your food.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#659
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure they do get such a raw deal for accepting card payments do they? Lots of (for example) food stalls in London were popping up as card-only businesses over the last few years, because it was easier than dealing with cash. The EU rules (which presumably still apply until actually repealed) capped the fees pretty effectively.

I'm not sure they do get such a raw deal for accepting card payments do they? Typical terms for merchants accepting credit card payments are probably the most one-sided legal agreements I've ever seen.

Oh sure, yeah no contest there. You want to accept cards here's your list of arcane rules and if you step over the line no money for you. I guess I was thinking in terms of fees etc.

Re: Can the Visa-Mastercard duopoly be broken?

#660
In India, the duopoly is already broken by UPI (Universal Payments Interface). UPI provides zero-cost transfers and mobile payments between linked bank accounts and every little streetcorner store and sidewalk vendor accepts UPI payments. Also 2FA using SMS is required and enabled by default.

You can pay by scanning a QR-code, or a mobile number, or a UPI ID. There's also an effort to allow "scanning" an audio-signal to enable non-smartphone devices.

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