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My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

depression2022.substack.com

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Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#71

Post by sneed-oil »

immibis wrote: post #59
verdverm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wait until staking is merged, 67% of the pools are run by centralized companies wanting to do business in the US, and they start filtering at the transaction level, including or not in blocks based on these same dirty metrics. Lots of people who became paper rich are going to go the other direction just as fast.

If they filter transactions, ETH will become worthless, causing the relevant stakers to lose all their money since by definition they are the ones with the most money. Seems like the system will punish censorship as designed.

> If they filter transactions, ETH will become worthless

I'm not sure about that. Some hodlers of ETH might be fine with governments being able to censor transactions. In that case what will determine the price of ETH is also how much of it these people own.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#72

Post by sneed-oil »

verdverm wrote: post #55
SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hope the developers of these defi lending protocols get hit with the criminal charges next. It's pretty crazy how all the arguments for freedom of speech (and software) go out the window for many people whenever cryptocurrency comes up.

It's pretty crazy how some people think all speech is protected or that running software is somehow protected by the same laws that protect speech.

Developers can write a smart contract without running it on their hardware, the people running it are miners.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#73

Post by sneed-oil »

Forbo wrote: post #70
sneed-oil wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling exchanges to remove it and making it illegal for merchants to accept it as payment

They made drugs illegal, look how well that's working out.

I'm not saying Monero will crash and nobody will use it if it gets sanctioned, but just like ETH coming from Tornado Cash is considered tainted the same could apply to all Monero.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#74

Post by immibis »

sneed-oil wrote: post #71
immibis wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they filter transactions, ETH will become worthless, causing the relevant stakers to lose all their money since by definition they are the ones with the most money. Seems like the system will punish censorship as designed.

> If they filter transactions, ETH will become worthless I'm not sure about that. Some hodlers of ETH might be fine with governments being able to censor transactions. In that case what will determine the price of ETH is also how much of it these people own.

It doesn't matter what some hodlers want; enough won't.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#75

Post by immibis »

verdverm wrote: post #67
immibis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The penalties are outside of the network. The penalties are that nobody wants to use a cryptocurrency with transaction filtering, when there are so many without it. Thus, the real-world value of the network token decreases drastically.

There are also a bunch of people sitting on the sidelines, waiting for a regulated network. Since all of these things are basically just printed money based on the faith of the people, and since ETH is number 2, I think it will survive centralization and regulatory capture, since most of the populace could care less about these things. It just happens to be that the ethos of crypto libertarianism isn't that important…

Those people are free to create their own network right now.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#76

Post by immibis »

landemva wrote: post #65
verdverm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will be the majority though, enough to choose the history of the ledger, it's more that they won't allow other validators to join the network, who could invalidate their choices. Thus, the penalties will not be applied. This guy explains it in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyP0uxxB6V8 How does ETH do to stop miners from rejecting or preferring transactions for blocks today? Pretty sure there have been…

> transaction front running This also happens in regulated markets, but you have to be very well connected to do it. https://wwnorton.com/books/flash-boys/

Interesting point. Instead of needing to be part of the good-old-boys club, on a decentralized network, anyone can try being corrupt. Hacking works similarly.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#77

Post by robertlagrant »

hnthrow1010 wrote: post #44
robertlagrant wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> openly and shamelessly stating, since around 2009, that the entire purpose of their "art" is to aid in laundering money and other crimes? Becomes > If they're smart, they wouldn't admit to it publicly. Let me guess. Your favourite castle is motte and bailey?

>Your favourite castle is motte and bailey? Less of this, please. Obviously, not everyone into crypto and defi says those exact words. But there are enough saying that type of thing, where I think it's wrong of anyone involved with this to feign ignorance. They know what they're getting into.

You might be embroiled in all the hype, but it's possible to just download an app and invest in some crypto. Lots of people will have just done that.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#78

Post by verdverm »

immibis wrote: post #75
verdverm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also a bunch of people sitting on the sidelines, waiting for a regulated network. Since all of these things are basically just printed money based on the faith of the people, and since ETH is number 2, I think it will survive centralization and regulatory capture, since most of the populace could care less about these things. It just happens to be that the ethos of crypto libertarianism isn't that important…

Those people are free to create their own network right now.

The rules of the ETH network allow for this regulatory capture to happen as well. Decentralized governance means you may not get your way when the majority think differently.

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#79

Post by verdverm »

immibis wrote: post #74
sneed-oil wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they filter transactions, ETH will become worthless I'm not sure about that. Some hodlers of ETH might be fine with governments being able to censor transactions. In that case what will determine the price of ETH is also how much of it these people own.

It doesn't matter what some hodlers want; enough won't.

most holders will be via centralized custodial accounts that will abide by US laws

Re: My ETH Wallet is wrongly sanctioned

#80

Post by verdverm »

immibis wrote: post #76
landemva wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> transaction front running This also happens in regulated markets, but you have to be very well connected to do it. https://wwnorton.com/books/flash-boys/

Interesting point. Instead of needing to be part of the good-old-boys club, on a decentralized network, anyone can try being corrupt. Hacking works similarly.

which is why blockchain is fundamentally flawed and misaligned with civilized societies
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