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Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

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Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#141

Post by prewett »

mgkimsal wrote: post #121
exolymph wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also a huge theme of the Bible — possibly all religions?

Is it? Acceptance for acceptance's sake, I don't get that from the Bible (or most major religious texts?). The 'accept things' is asterisked with a 'because $deity', which just opens up many more cans of worms.

Did you get "accept things because God" from reading the Bible or from conservative American Christians? In my experience conservative Americans Christians have a tendency to be threatened by questions, I think owing to a fairly shallow understanding of God that boils down to "do this because I said so; you can't, trust Jesus to take away your failure", which while not incorrect is incomplete.

But the Old Testament only has three books of laws (Numbers and Deuteronomy, with a few in Exodus), out of 39. Genesis and Exodus give the origin story of how Israel got to be God's people. Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy give the expectations that go along with being privilege of being the people God chose to glorify his name in the earth. There are blessings for obedience, and punishments for disobedience. The rest of the Old Testament is struggling with those laws, namely that God keeps his promises when Israel obeys, but Israel has a strong pattern of disobeying, and God keeps his promises of punishments, too, ultimately kicking them out of the land he gave them. You have some wisdom literature on what a wise, godly life looks like, where is God when you're suffering. A number of the characters get pretty upset with God at points: Elijah says "I thought this amazing miracle would turn Israel back to You, but they're just trying to kill me, wtf?"; Jeremiah says "God you set me up the bomb: if I prophesy people hate me and if I don't prophesy the word burns inside of me until I do"; Job says "I was punished for being innocent, surely if I could bring my case to God he would judge me innocent". And God responds. Then there are people like David, who realize that God doesn't want the sacrifices that the law demands, God really wants a contrite heart. Likewise, Micah says God doesn't want sacrifices, he wants people to act justly.

The Old Testament clearly showed that Israel (and by extension, the rest of us) are incapable of keeping the law, which the teachers of Israel in the New Testament summarized as basically "love God, love others". The New Testament shows God fulfilling his promise from the prophets to solve the problem of people not obeying the law by changing our hearts. This he does through Jesus dying to pay for our failure to obey, and then giving us God's spirit, to change us into people who think the way he does and value the way he does. In the process, we are freed from all the rules and regulations, so Paul says that the follower of Christ is enabled by God's spirit to keep just one law, which is both simpler and harder: "love God, love others".

All that is to say, I don't think the Bible says "accept things because God said so", except arguably in 3 out of the 66 total books. American Christians (maybe others, too, don't know) say that all the time, but not the Bible.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#142

Post by williamtrask »

spacemark wrote: post #82
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #59

These kinds of discussions remind of this passage from Mere Christianity by CS Lewis: Most people, if they had really learned to look into their own hearts, would know that they do want, and want acutely, something that cannot be had in this world. There are all sorts of things in this world that offer to give it to you, but they never quite keep their promise. The longings which arise in us when we first fall in lov…

So, it's either keep grasping at something that isn't there, give up on the thing and accept it isn't there, or come to Jesus and get it in the afterlife. I've always been baffled by CS Lewis. Quite a mix of insight and rational incoherence.

Might I suggest elaborating on the incoherence. This reads as a summary of points and then simply exclaiming “incoherent!”.

To summarise alternatively, if you can’t get it in this life, don’t pretend you can, and instead find hope in the next. Given how little we know about consciousness and what happens to it, it’s not technically incoherent. Possibly not provable but not incoherent either.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#143

Post by teg4n_ »

kirse wrote: post #100
lordleft wrote: post #53

One thing I love about Tolstoy's War and Peace is how it describes how individuals can cycle through absorbing worldviews, philosophies, causes and projects across the arc of their lives. They feel adrift, then find some great cause to push them forward, exhaust the possibilities of that cause, and find themselves disillusioned when they discovered that they have not "solved" the problem of life. This happens over an…

it describes how individuals can cycle through absorbing worldviews, philosophies, causes and projects across the arc of their lives That is pretty much the theme of the Biblical book of Ecclesiastes, written many a moon before War and Peace. You have a king who cycles through everything he thinks he could possibly desire, attaining all of it, and realizes at the end the answer to the problem of life was... well, I'l…

No post body was provided.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#144

Post by mmmmmbop »

powerset wrote: post #97
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #59

These kinds of discussions remind of this passage from Mere Christianity by CS Lewis: Most people, if they had really learned to look into their own hearts, would know that they do want, and want acutely, something that cannot be had in this world. There are all sorts of things in this world that offer to give it to you, but they never quite keep their promise. The longings which arise in us when we first fall in lov…

Thanks for the quote, now I want to go read that book! I really like the way he voices parts 1 and 2, as it echoes similar thoughts I've had but haven't articulated so elegantly. I think my personal answer to (3) is slightly different but to each their own!

What's your answer to (3)?

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#145

Post by cedricd »

ultramegachurch wrote: post #6
tayo42 wrote: post #3

I wonder if the "midlife" part of midlife crisis does some harm. Other then me not being in my midlife (well i hope lol, don't think i want to die at 60) a lot of those issue resonate. Shrinking of possibilities, empty feeling as i pursue things. Ive felt this way on and off since my 20s and have talked with friends about similar feelings.

Yeah, this hits home. I'm only 28 but can feel my life becoming more and more predictable and stagnate. At the same time, I'm too afraid and money-conscious to make any bold changes (e.g., quit my job, start a business, go back to school, live in a van for a year, do something weird with my life). This is an incredible source of anxiety and depression. I've started therapy and have made some progress. If I can become…

At 29 I took a year off everything and traveled. One thing I've learned in the decade+ since is that every year that goes by makes it harder to do. If you're feeling the itch just do it. You'll have a lot of years in your career so don't think you're missing out on anything -- assuming you're able to make the finances work.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#146

Post by arbitrary_name »

fleddr wrote: post #140
mikestew wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you realize that you're using this incredible and very temporary opportunity to sit in a chair for most of your waking hours, for decades in a row. Beats the hell out of scratching out a subsistence living. That ain't gonna afford me much of any opportunity other than scratching at the ground and hoping the locusts don't eat it. Anything beyond that, and we're just arguing about the degree of technology that…

Could be worse is not that much of a comeback. But I'm happy that you're happy. I'm not unhappy, and I was exaggerating, but I do believe there's quite a gap between how amazing our existence is and how unamazing we tend to spent it.

But i have issue with your 'unamazing': the mere fact of existence is a miracle, and what you do with it is up to you. The amazingness is an entirely made up and subjective judgement.

In this case, you just seem to be going around saying 'you are spending your life mediocrely' because that's your measure. From my perspective, you have no business declaring that to be a universal value.

I personally think there are billions of different ways to spend this life, and billions of different ways to value it.

We might try to establish some external measurement, as you appear to be doing, but what is that actually worth, besides making you feel like you have some company in mediocrity?

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#147

Post by layer8 »

fleddr wrote: post #132

A great way to spontaneously trigger a midlife crisis, no matter your age, is to watch Youtube videos about the universe, the origin of life, etc. You'll get this inspirational rush of how amazing everything is, how vast the universe, how incredibly unusual for life to exist and for us specifically as a species to exist. And the advanced state we're in, able to do almost anything. And then you realize that you're usi…

I sometimes feel that way about spending time on HN. :)

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#148

Post by wj »

fleddr wrote: post #125
hondo77 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah I'm 34...and feeling like I'm literally in my prime. You are. Most people don't realize that until they're in their 40s.

He's not. Assuming he's male, physical peak is near 26, intellectual peak early to mid 20s. This doesn't mean you can't learn new things nor does it mean your body isn't fit anymore, it just means you're already on the way down. It won't feel that way though, I understand.

With age comes the wisdom on how to best apply the learning.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#149

Post by Mezzie »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #56

Acceptance. My survival strategy for mid-life has been to replace the ambition and balls that got me through my 20's and 30's with age appropriate acceptance of the MANY things I cannot control & don't have time to do, with a wisdom to focus on the FEW things that are likely to matter to me when I hit my 70's and beyond. For example, I can't control the divorce that consumed a ton of time and money in my 40's, but I…

I learned this full speed into a brick wall via an MS relapse in my last semester of graduate school.

There are always things that you can't control. It's best to adjust your worldview to accommodate that, or if the unexpected does happen, you won't adjust easily. Speaking from experience.

Re: Midlife: A Philosophical Guide

#150

Post by Mezzie »

wj wrote: post #148
fleddr wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not. Assuming he's male, physical peak is near 26, intellectual peak early to mid 20s. This doesn't mean you can't learn new things nor does it mean your body isn't fit anymore, it just means you're already on the way down. It won't feel that way though, I understand.

With age comes the wisdom on how to best apply the learning.

And the wisdom for deciding what is worth learning. Don't underestimate that effectiveness multiplier.
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