Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook • Hacker News Board

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#161

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:36 PM UTC

killjoywashere wrote: post #109

koheripbal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of dishonesty around Westerners complaining about foreign cheap labor. They claim to be championing labor rights, but they are often just angered at companies for stopping all manufacturing in the West. They see it as an obvious weakness in their ideology that companies can just walk away from their labor movement and go elsewhere. The obvious truth, and what literally all of these Vietnamese workers w…

> The true story with China is that moving Western manufacturing to China raised the standard of living for literally hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. And thereby strengthened the hand of the CCP.

It's exactly the opposite.

People who can afford a good education are harder to control.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#162

Post by another_story » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

latchkey wrote: post #42

mgraczyk wrote: post #19

A lot of comments here are criticizing Apple for chasing cheap labor. Ignoring for a second the fact that this has a lot more to do with geopolitics and hedging geopolitical risk, I think it's important to think more carefully about the impact of companies investing in developing economies. By and large, the factory work done by people in developing economies is dramatically better in terms of quality of life and saf…

Quite a few of the factories are actually owned by Koreans... Vietnam is their cheap labor force.

And Taiwanese

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#163

Post by koheripbal » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:37 PM UTC

LtWorf wrote: post #148

xwdv wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We produce things that matter, such as food. We’ll be fine.

With no chips to repair the john deere tractors? Yeah food won't happen.

We produce lots of chips now, and soon we're going to be producing enough for ourselves.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#164

Post by pedalpete » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:38 PM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #139

rdbell wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

International trade dependency is one of the biggest deterrents to war and often helps countries become allies.

Commonly held incorrect belief. Educate yourself: https://knowledge.uchicago.edu/record/2005?ln=en

As per HN Guidlines, please don't be snarky. You may have a very valid point, and it is great to back it up with links to more info, but please state what the point you are making is, rather than just a snarky comment with a link

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#:~:text=It'....

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#165

Post by strongpigeon » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #157

strongpigeon wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mind sharing an example of military leaders in the US warning about our foreign debt being one of our biggest threats?

https://brooks.house.gov/media-center/news-releases/after-mo...

Thanks for that link! I think it's reasonable to argue that fiscal responsibility is related to national security. That being said, I don't know what this has to do with China holding any part of the national debt?

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#166

Post by sfvegandude » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:39 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #36

AYBABTME wrote: post #26

I don't really see what the problem is with offshoring. If other people elsewhere want to work for cheaper, then it's fair competition. It's not like protectionism would work long term anyways. And in this particular case, Vietnam is more aligned with the US than China, geopolitically, so this makes a lot of sense.

Because you slowly shift your economy out from underneath you and effectively give it away. In the process you lose the ability to have any of these core competencies yourself. In the end what’s the point of having cheaper products if no one has a job to buy them.

> In the process you lose the ability to have any of these core competencies yourself.

Nonsense. The US could obtain the core competencies themselves and indeed will as globalization winds down.

People will never stop coming to the US for opportunity.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#167

Post by alephnerd » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

granshaw wrote: post #134

eej71 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the decline in needing cheap labor is going to be a problem for large countries like China. China needed those cheap labor factories to be the engine to help lift people out of rural poverty. Unfortunately that engine will now falter and many will be left behind. For an eye opening survey here, I highly recommend the book Invisible China.

They are well on their way of climbing onto the next rung of the manufacturing ladder and manufacturing more complex items with higher margins that can absorb higher wages …and transitioning more to a service economy …no?

Nope. By most standards the PRC is stuck in the middle income trap.

To paraphrase an earlier comment I wrote sometime back:

Chinese household median income is around $4,700-4,800 in 2021, with massive disparities between First world comparable regions such as Beijing, Shanghai, and Tianjin, and rust belt regions like Wuhan [0]. Even the Chinese Premier Li Keqiang has noted that 600 million Chinese earn less that $140/month [1].

[0] http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/PressRelease/202201/t2022011...

[1] https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1189968.shtml

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#168

Post by pedalpete » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:40 PM UTC

iloveitaly wrote: post #68

I wonder how long it will be until Apple is running their own fabs, or at least diversifies away from heavily relying on TSMC. Has anyone seen news to this effect?

I think it is more likely that TSMC is diversifying away from building only in Taiwan. They have the expertise. Apple's expertise is engineering, design, and marketing.

They don't own their own factories because that is not their expertise, and they probably don't want to bring that in house.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#169

Post by futhey » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:43 PM UTC

iloveitaly wrote: post #68

I wonder how long it will be until Apple is running their own fabs, or at least diversifies away from heavily relying on TSMC. Has anyone seen news to this effect?

Why would they? They identified the best semiconductor manufacturer, and gave them so much business they basically do whatever Apple wants, and prioritize their capacity over everyone else.

Re: Vietnam to make Apple Watch and MacBook

#170

Post by bigcat12345678 » Wed, Aug 17, 2022, 10:44 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #161

killjoywashere wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The true story with China is that moving Western manufacturing to China raised the standard of living for literally hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. And thereby strengthened the hand of the CCP.

It's exactly the opposite. People who can afford a good education are harder to control.

Yes, that's why American people are so dumbed down nowadays, intentionally by some people who happened to share this ideology.