Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#61

Post by sukuriant » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:19 AM UTC

AlexMuir wrote: post #40

rhplus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but possibly it's because you're suggesting people build webapps to compete with anti-virus firms, CAD/CAM vendors and a couple of hardware manufacturers.

Trend did a pretty decent job with Housecall - I think that was mainly an ActiveX control? I don't know much about the AV industry, but their market (Windows PCs) is being challenged by mobile devices, tablets, *nix, Macs and browser-based systems.

Other operating systems can get viruses too. Windows has the most viruses pointed at it because most people use it. The Antivirus industry is not really being challenged.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#62

Post by the-cakeboss » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:35 AM UTC

caycep wrote: post #41

Why is Apple still a member of the BSA? They might as well pull out. They aren't in the business of selling costly software licenses - they give most of their software away, ostensibly to drive hardware sales. But it seems to me there's little that BSA does that dovetails in their interest.

Possibly to drive more revenue towards iTunes and whatever other online initiatives they have in the works. While they themselves aren't being heavily affected by copyright infringement they do have an interest in more people turning towards legal outlets for content.

Furthermore, it is quite possible that they feel the need to maintain a good relationship with the RIAA et al.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#63

Post by _delirium » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:35 AM UTC

tzs wrote: post #29

Yeah, how about that. In short, Microsoft is using a front group to throw its support behind SOPA, while publicly saying and doing nothing, thus avoiding our rancor and displeasure. Well, no, that won’t do at all. Note that the article provides no support whatsoever for the claim that BSA is a Microsoft front group, or that Microsoft is using it to intentionally support SOPA. I'm surprised this hasn't been flagged to…

Whether the BSA is a Microsoft front group or not is something people have been debating since it was founded in the late '80s, and probably depends on how close ties you require to call something a "front group". There was a bunch of debate and some litigation over it in the 1990s.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#64

Post by Volpe » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:37 AM UTC

tikhonj wrote: post #52

Volpe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft and Apple, on the other hand, make money by restricting users' freedom Umm, actually I think they make their money buy selling products. Consumers are rarely (ever?) driven by a "restrict my freedom" motive...

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Sure, only selling things makes revenue directly. However, policies abridging freedom help both companies scale--by attempting to lock users into their platforms and making it difficult or impossible to not buy their software when getting a new computer, both companies get more people to spend more money.

Could you elaborate on how MS and Apple do this specifically?

I find their revenue models very different, Apply making it on hardware + iTunes (Music, apps, movies, etc), MS making it on Software.

How do you group them as the same? And call it 'Lock-in'?

Edit: for clarity

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#65

Post by the-cakeboss » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:45 AM UTC

adriand wrote: post #37

rhplus wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but possibly it's because you're suggesting people build webapps to compete with anti-virus firms, CAD/CAM vendors and a couple of hardware manufacturers.

Interesting, because I would bet that there will be a serious web app contender in the CAD sphere at some point. I'm not so sure the OP is off the mark here.

Maybe someday, but I just can't see a web app that could seriously compete with the likes of Adobe or Autodesk in the foreseeable future. While there are online services that provide some of the features found in applications like photoshop, they are hardly compelling enough to get any Adobe or Autodesk customer to jump ship. Same goes for the like of Siemens and Mastercam, but probably more so.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#66

Post by the-cakeboss » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:54 AM UTC

jvandenbroeck wrote: post #34

Finally a list you can use as a computer science graduate to know for which companies you are absolutely not going to work.

Why wouldn't you work there? Does trying to protect your IP and business ( albeit in a completely inappropriate and detrimental way ) indicate a poor employer?

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#67

Post by the-cakeboss » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 1:54 AM UTC

jvandenbroeck wrote: post #34

Finally a list you can use as a computer science graduate to know for which companies you are absolutely not going to work.

Why wouldn't you work there? Does trying to protect your IP and business ( albeit in a completely inappropriate and detrimental way ) indicate a poor employer?

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#68

Post by steve-howard » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 2:00 AM UTC

freemarketteddy wrote: post #36

steve-howard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

You are right....The notion that corporations (which is a group of individuals together to achieve a particular objective,most commonly money) have the same rights as individuals(objective:happiness) is the root of this mess!....But I dont know if such an old legal precedent like Dartmouth vs Woodward can be changed!...Not that people havent tried..... http://movetoamend.org/ ! This should really be the aim of the OW…

The notion of corporations as people is fine with me as a legal fiction (the original intent). The major advance in the Dartmouth case was that contracts made by corporations were valid, and that the state didn't have the right to arbitrarily dissolve them. I wouldn't want that particular aspect to be any other way.

More important is the conflation of artificial persons and actual people. In light of my previous concept of a corporation as an entity that does whatever's legal, however amoral, to make a profit, it's silly to apply moral concepts such as "inalienable rights" to them.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#69

Post by steve-howard » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 2:06 AM UTC

breck wrote: post #24

steve-howard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

> I think what this highlights, however, is that legislation should stem from principles and the interest of the people (individuals only, please) Exactly. No bill should be longer than a couple of pages. The Constitution is less than 15 pages, no bill should be longer than that. (Or you can pick another arbitrary number as long as it is low). Special interests are unintentionally creating a worse world for all of us…

I remember the article about lying to federal investigators several months ago that said something along the lines of "you are not qualified to know if you are breaking federal law. Get a lawyer." This is why.

Remember, of course, that without line-item or amendatory veto powers, the legislature can simply stuff unrelated things into unremarkable bills and get away with it. It's a great reason for your 15-page rule, and also a great reason why it will never happen.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#70

Post by feralchimp » Fri, Nov 18, 2011, 2:07 AM UTC

recusancy wrote: post #33

feralchimp wrote: post #30

There's no story here. The alternative to "supporting SOPA in virtue of membership in the BSA" is "leaving the BSA over the BSA generally lobbying government to enforce copyright protections." That's kind of the point of the organization. If you don't expect AutoDesk and MathWorks and SolidWorks to leave the BSA just to avoid this kind of second-rate muckraker reporting, then ignore the fact that Microsoft, CA, and A…

Apple left the Chamber of Commerce over their stance on climate change. Why is this different? Sometimes an organization that you belong to goes too far.

Upvoted that.