Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

thenextweb.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 120 posts

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#21

Post by brk »

AlexMuir wrote: post #17
AlexMuir wrote: post #8

The membership of this group is basically a list of businesses that startups should be chipping away at. Let them spend their time lobbying, while you sneak up behind them and whack them on the head with your niche webapp. -- Adobe Apple Autodesk AVEVA AVG Bentley Systems CA Cadence Design Systems CNC Software – Mastercam Compuware Corel Dassault Systèmes SolidWorks Corporation Dell Intel Intuit Kaspersky McAfee Micr…

Downvoters, educate me! What's the issue here?

I downvoted you...

First, that list of companies has deep pockets, and it is WAY harder to undue legislation than prevent it in the first place. So, suggesting in any way that we let it be and take some other tactic is bad advice, IMO.

Second the "niche webapp" bit is way too cliche. What "webapp" is going to threaten Dell, Intel or Apple? Even some of the software companies on that list focus on things that are not going to fall prey to "niche webapps" for any foreseeable time.

So, to me, your comment was a strawman that added no value.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#22

Post by esrauch »

steve-howard wrote: post #14
naner wrote: post #13

Notice that the supporters are software companies and the opposed are Internet companies. Here is a theory I proposed yesterday[1]: Microsoft makes the vast majority of their money selling licenses. So does the entertainment industry. For years these industries (software, music, and video) grew to massive size by exploiting cheap duplication of digital goods and control over distribution channels. Now that further ad…

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

> In this case I'm increasingly of the opinion that all campaign contributions of any kind should be banned.

Unfortunately the only real effect of this is that only the independently wealthy would be able to successfully run for office.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#23

Post by rhplus »

AlexMuir wrote: post #17
AlexMuir wrote: post #8

The membership of this group is basically a list of businesses that startups should be chipping away at. Let them spend their time lobbying, while you sneak up behind them and whack them on the head with your niche webapp. -- Adobe Apple Autodesk AVEVA AVG Bentley Systems CA Cadence Design Systems CNC Software – Mastercam Compuware Corel Dassault Systèmes SolidWorks Corporation Dell Intel Intuit Kaspersky McAfee Micr…

Downvoters, educate me! What's the issue here?

I didn't downvote, but possibly it's because you're suggesting people build webapps to compete with anti-virus firms, CAD/CAM vendors and a couple of hardware manufacturers.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#24

Post by breck »

steve-howard wrote: post #14
naner wrote: post #13

Notice that the supporters are software companies and the opposed are Internet companies. Here is a theory I proposed yesterday[1]: Microsoft makes the vast majority of their money selling licenses. So does the entertainment industry. For years these industries (software, music, and video) grew to massive size by exploiting cheap duplication of digital goods and control over distribution channels. Now that further ad…

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

> I think what this highlights, however, is that legislation should stem from principles and the interest of the people (individuals only, please)

Exactly. No bill should be longer than a couple of pages. The Constitution is less than 15 pages, no bill should be longer than that. (Or you can pick another arbitrary number as long as it is low).

Special interests are unintentionally creating a worse world for all of us (and not just IP proponents, I mean all special interests from banking lobbyists to teacher unions), and the way they are doing it is because bills are impossible to understand (even if that's your job!), and so everyone tries to get their short term benefit while making the whole system worse in the long run.

Make a constitutional amendment saying no bill can be more than 15 pages and I guarantee you countless problems will go away.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#25

Post by snowwrestler »

naner wrote: post #13

Notice that the supporters are software companies and the opposed are Internet companies. Here is a theory I proposed yesterday[1]: Microsoft makes the vast majority of their money selling licenses. So does the entertainment industry. For years these industries (software, music, and video) grew to massive size by exploiting cheap duplication of digital goods and control over distribution channels. Now that further ad…

The dividing line can be neatly seen as whether a company derives its value from server-hosted software or not. Companies which derive their value from server-hosted software have no reason to support IP-protecting legislation because their IP is already protected by the server/client architecture.

Companies like Microsoft, Apple, most game companies, and of course content companies transmit their entire IP to each customer. It is impossible to technologically prevent the copying of this IP--we all know the failings of DRM. Thus they must depend on the law for protection.

I hypothesize that Google might be less sanguine about IP protections if a new technology became available which allowed anyone to easily view and copy the Google search algorithm code at any time.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#26

Post by Volpe »

tikhonj wrote: post #6
rexf wrote: post #2

It was very conspicuous yesterday that Apple & Microsoft did not show up on the anti-SOPA NYTimes ad: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/16/google-facebook-twitter-a...

Those were all internet companies--internet freedom really matters to them. Microsoft and Apple, on the other hand, make money by restricting users' freedom and do not rely on the internet nearly as heavily. Their covertly supporting SOPA does not really come as a surprise.

> Microsoft and Apple, on the other hand, make money by restricting users' freedom

Umm, actually I think they make their money buy selling products. Consumers are rarely (ever?) driven by a "restrict my freedom" motive...

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#27

Post by Vivtek »

esrauch wrote: post #22
steve-howard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

> In this case I'm increasingly of the opinion that all campaign contributions of any kind should be banned. Unfortunately the only real effect of this is that only the independently wealthy would be able to successfully run for office.

Public funding.

If getting information to the public about candidates costs money, then that's just another tragedy of the commons - an external cost of government that is simply ignored so that the rich and powerful can have government to themselves. It is very easy to argue that informing the public about their options in an election is essential and should therefore be covered by public funds.

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#28

Post by krig »

esrauch wrote: post #22
steve-howard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have interned with Microsoft in the past, and am scheduled to in the future. Therefore take everything I say with a metric ton of salt. Obviously my opinions don't speak for them. Most corporations put their lobbying efforts behind or against legislation based on what's in their interest. I don't believe that the public can honestly expect them to act any differently so long as their behavior is in accordance with…

> In this case I'm increasingly of the opinion that all campaign contributions of any kind should be banned. Unfortunately the only real effect of this is that only the independently wealthy would be able to successfully run for office.

I don't see how that is any different from the current situation. Surely everyone who has run for office and seen even the slightest level of success in the US in the last century have been independently wealthy before-hand?

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#29

Post by tzs » 

   Yeah, how about that. In short, Microsoft
   is using a front group to throw its support
   behind SOPA, while publicly saying and doing
   nothing, thus avoiding our rancor and displeasure.
   Well, no, that won’t do at all.
Note that the article provides no support whatsoever for the claim that BSA is a Microsoft front group, or that Microsoft is using it to intentionally support SOPA.

I'm surprised this hasn't been flagged to death. Are people not actually reading the article?

Re: Microsoft, Apple and 27 other tech companies backing SOPA indirectly

#30

Post by feralchimp »

There's no story here.

The alternative to "supporting SOPA in virtue of membership in the BSA" is "leaving the BSA over the BSA generally lobbying government to enforce copyright protections." That's kind of the point of the organization.

If you don't expect AutoDesk and MathWorks and SolidWorks to leave the BSA just to avoid this kind of second-rate muckraker reporting, then ignore the fact that Microsoft, CA, and Apple didn't leave either.

Post reply on HN