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Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

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Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#211

Post by starkd »

amrangaye wrote: post #204
starkd wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what's your point? Do they need to actually suffer in the same way in order for justice to be achieved? Because that's the implication he is essetnially driving at. The important thing is those abolitionist recognized a moral wrong for what it was and strove to counter it. To insist in such a way that they can never understand not only invalidates their efforts but only tries to set the stage for some kind of fur…

You’re making it either / or and it’s not. I can feel sympathetic to the Uyghurs, fight for their rights, canvass my representatives, donate to charities etc. But I (a black African man) can never truly know or experience what the average Uyghur goes though day to day, because I just haven’t lived it. So no, when we say that, we are not “excluding” anyone - in fact the more allies a minority has, the more likely they…

Not what I said. I'm saying why else harp on the fact that white abolitionists could not understand their lived experience other than to disparage their contribution. I have no dispute with the idea that someone is unable to understand another's lived experience in the same way, because that's self evident. It is a truism. Why even say it other than to invalidate their contribution? Because thats essentially what they are doing.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#212

Post by boomboomsubban »

LightG wrote: post #28
boomboomsubban wrote: post #4

This is among the strangest advertisements I've read. "Are you strongly against discrimination? Then rent from us!"

Why? Not knowing anything about any of this except I know the type of discrimination happens. If a company is aware and possibly works against it happening, why wouldn't I say to myself, "You know what? These guys aren't @sssholes, let me go ahead and search their listings".

I inherently question anyone paying to say how great they are. I'd be fine with a normal ad that says "we practice discrimination free lending" but hiring a media company to write a "news story" like this is sketchy.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#213

Post by wenc »

amrangaye wrote: post #191
starkd wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Any body can understand it. It's a basic human empathy characteristic. Telling people they are not in a position to know anything about it, is merely an attempt at thought control by disregarding their opinions. It's not really a discussion.

I don’t think this is correct. Just yesterday I was thinking about the many brave white people who fought as abolitionists to end the slave trade, risking their lives. But they could never truly understand what it was to be a slave, because they went home at the end of the day, whereas the slaves were not only forced to work without pay, they were also bred like horses, with the “strongest” ones forced to mate to mak…

As a POC I relate to your point of view and lived experience certainly provides us sensitivity to certain issues that would not be front of mind for people who don’t share those experiences.

However lived experience can also introduces biases — for instance, would you trust a court of law to deliver justice if the victim was also judge and jury? That lived experience which provides sensitivity and also can make one too close to the matter at hand to see things clearly.

I think people with and without lived experiences can pull together and make positive contributions.

I say this because there are so many examples of solutions proposed by people with lived experience that are utterly counterproductive, because they shut out the voices of those without lived experience but who might have balancing views drawn from the broader human experience.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#214

Post by rektide »

starkd wrote: post #85
bhupy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, minority here, and I wouldn't feel comfortable living anywhere except the US, Canada, the UK, and maybe ANZ. The Anglo-world in general is far more welcoming to people of color than anywhere else. I'm sure I could be comfortable wherever I am in the world, but it would be extremely difficult for me to thrive and see myself in a position of leadership (either in the private sector or the government) anywhere outs…

I think we have a biological tendency to be somewhat racist, but among every person that I've met who could be classed as being marginally racist, usually they do not really mean the things they say. Nearly every one of them will create an exception once they have a reasonable conversation with someone from another race. I say, marginally racist, because I have never met a full-fledged racist (in U.S. here). Peronall…

A lot of this feels too much for me, as semi-dismissive of problematic & discrimatory parts of folk. One thing that I like a lot though is,

> Nearly every one of them will create an exception once they have a reasonable conversation with someone from another race.

Shifting somewhat off race, one of my biggest hopes with some of the covid / work-remote urban-to-rural diapora is that- by finally having some reverse brain drain- less urban places might finally see & hear from some more diverse people. Some cultural mixing & injection of other people can (I hope) add some empathy & sense in places that have had fewer & fewer huddling together & weathering the slow-but-ever-ongoing worldwide march of economic-stratification.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#215

Post by HonestOp001 »

foobarbecue wrote: post #130
starkd wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny they exist, but they have been marginalized in society. They don't hold any significant power in terms of holding people back.

The problem isn't overt racists so much as subtle, persistent bias, which absolutely holds people back in very significant ways. See my comment about my grandmother. And... unless you're in a marginalized minority group, you really aren't in a position to know how racist people are. Oh yeah, I just remembered, we also recently had a president for four years who was overly racist. Remember his attacks on Judge Curiel?…

Your claim of overt racism is incorrect, it was shaped from the filter of the news media. I would recommend that you look outside the bubble and look at the framing.

A great example was how shutting down travel at the start of Covid-19 was seen as racist. Yet, there should have been no issue as it was the only thing we can do in our global environment to slow the situation. Yet, the people in charge came up with that as racist.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#216

Post by blueflow »

searchableguy wrote: post #17
blueflow wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtue signalling as a form of self-promotion. I feel this makes them look more shady but i don't know if their conversion numbers reflect that.

It does not to me. It is similar to pet friendly, unmarried couple friendly, foreigner friendly, etc tag. It wastes less time of everyone while law enforcement cracks down on discrimination of protected classes.

Might be a cultural difference.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#217

Post by choko »

pixl97 wrote: post #167
speakfreely wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People frequently cite historical racial inequities (race-based loan denials) as proof of racism in 2022 when those specific issues are no longer prevalent.

No longer directly prevalent. The secondary effects caused the primary effects will still take many many generations to even get close to working itself out. For example, Redlining just being turned into 'your address affects your credit score'.

Your address does not impact your credit score.

https://www.equifax.com/personal/education/credit/score/how-...

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#218

Post by choko »

justinsaccount wrote: post #76
choko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's illegal to deny loans on the basis of race. Your race is also not a factor in your credit score.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

I'm refuting your argument.

You said: "well you could live here, but your loan was denied, sorry"

My response was that there are laws that prohibit institutions from denying loans based on the factors you have cited.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#219

Post by foobarbecue »

bhupy wrote: post #163
foobarbecue wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is often subtle and insidious. I'll never forget asking my grandma what she thought of Obama when he was running for president the first time. She said "I like his ideas, but he just doesn't... LOOK right." The dog whistle version of this, which you heard public figures using on TV, was "he doesn't look presidential."

Even assuming that your grandma was coming from a place of racial animus (itself debatable), nobody is arguing that America is devoid of racism — there's no country on Earth that has truly eradicated racism. The real point is that the conversation you described happens ten times over in most peer developed countries. If you think it's bad that a few people say this about Obama (who ultimately was elected President tw…

Agreed. I've lived for several years each in Japan, Brazil, Sweden, and England, and each of those countries have their own particular flavors of racism. Some of my white friends in England were overtly racist against people Indian and Polish descent. The US isn't alone, and it's not the worst.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#220

Post by benhurmarcel »

bhupy wrote: post #52
lettergram wrote: post #30

Every time I hear “America is racist” I remind people the world is far more racist - see story above. This is common practice everywhere. Europe, Asia, etc. they discriminate for different reasons and in different ways, but they all do it and it’s almost always overt. That’s the culture in the region, imo it’s not “wrong”. People self-select and who am I to discriminate against their culture? They do it for their rea…

Yup, minority here, and I wouldn't feel comfortable living anywhere except the US, Canada, the UK, and maybe ANZ. The Anglo-world in general is far more welcoming to people of color than anywhere else. I'm sure I could be comfortable wherever I am in the world, but it would be extremely difficult for me to thrive and see myself in a position of leadership (either in the private sector or the government) anywhere outs…

> You can go to live in France, but you cannot become a Frenchman

It's quite contradictory with what happens in practice. You can absolutely go live in France and be considered a Frenchman. However Americans will always identify you by your family's origin, even if you're born in the US.

Actually that difference in how countries see nationality was well illustrated when France won the soccer World Cup, and American commenters didn't see an issue with denying the French players they belonging to their country, and insisting they were from Africa and couldn't have changed that because of their ancestry. The French saw that as profoundly racist. See https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/19/17590302/t...

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