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RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

ravynos.com

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Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#311

Post by sbf501 »

smoldesu wrote: post #308
sbf501 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "sloppy" it is just a different approach. It drives me nuts on Windows that when I close FireFox the entire APPLICATION closes! I just wanted to close the window. Now when I start it again / open a new window, I have to enter my LastPass credentials. And pay the boot penalty. IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not.

> IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not. On Linux' Firefox, this does not seem to be the case. I just confirmed by closing a window with a few dozen tabs, and my other windows were perfectly fine. Same goes for VS Code, IDEA, Ghidra, Tilix, etc. This might be Wayland-specific behavior, but closing one window does not appear to ta…

You are correct, with a subtle modification: there are a "Close Window" and "Exit Application" mode in some popular X-based windowed apps (see: VSCode). Some apps, like Eclipse, solve this by hosting the child windows in a parent container. But then you lose screen real estate.

But you always need ONE child window open or it will exit entirely.

MacOS has a different approach, where the application top level process keeps running, even if it has no windows, but this requires some sort of GUI element to communicate with application.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#312

Post by stonemetal12 »

smoldesu wrote: post #308
sbf501 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not "sloppy" it is just a different approach. It drives me nuts on Windows that when I close FireFox the entire APPLICATION closes! I just wanted to close the window. Now when I start it again / open a new window, I have to enter my LastPass credentials. And pay the boot penalty. IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not.

> IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not. On Linux' Firefox, this does not seem to be the case. I just confirmed by closing a window with a few dozen tabs, and my other windows were perfectly fine. Same goes for VS Code, IDEA, Ghidra, Tilix, etc. This might be Wayland-specific behavior, but closing one window does not appear to ta…

When you close all open firefox windows is firefox still running? On MacOS it is. On windows and Linux it isn't. It has nothing to do with "other apps"

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#313

Post by numbers »

Can it get the font rendering to the level that macOS or iOS have? If yes, then it's getting there. The few things that scream to me that I'm not using a mac:

1. Antialiasing of fonts, how crisp and clear does it look on my screen? Windows has struggled with this especially after ClearType.

2. Alignment of elements in various applications. The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find a happy medium, copy macOS's spacing.

3. Is the contrast in colors strong enough to tell me this was designed by someone who has some design (hopefully color theory background) or was it just an attempt to use many colors?

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#314

Post by graphenus »

numbers wrote: post #313

Can it get the font rendering to the level that macOS or iOS have? If yes, then it's getting there. The few things that scream to me that I'm not using a mac: 1. Antialiasing of fonts, how crisp and clear does it look on my screen? Windows has struggled with this especially after ClearType. 2. Alignment of elements in various applications. The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find…

1. Doesn't macOS turn off font antialiasing for retina displays? I believe retina displays (with desktop scaling) is the real solution to crispy fonts.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#315

Post by innocentoldguy »

LeSaucy wrote: post #277
rattray wrote: post #205

I really hope they build some kind of application registry, including listing projects that don't yet work on RavynOS, so that the community can see which packages are most in-demand, what % of apps that people want are supported, reviews from others on stability for the platform, etc. Could bootstrap this by looking at everything in Homebrew (including casks) and sharing whether it seems to work on RavynOS yet (or w…

The biggest gap from developers will be the lack of docker on freebsd.

This may be an issue for some developers, but not all. I’m a developer and I never use Docker.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#316

Post by hbn »

numbers wrote: post #313

Can it get the font rendering to the level that macOS or iOS have? If yes, then it's getting there. The few things that scream to me that I'm not using a mac: 1. Antialiasing of fonts, how crisp and clear does it look on my screen? Windows has struggled with this especially after ClearType. 2. Alignment of elements in various applications. The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find…

> The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find a happy medium, copy macOS's spacing.

I noticed that too on the screenshots page. And it's weird cause it looks right under the "features you'd love" section on the main page. It looks like most of those images (the traffic light buttons, global menus, folder icons) are faked to look like macOS but then the screenshots don't actually look like that.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#317

Post by smoldesu »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #312
smoldesu wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO, a multi-window app should not exit when I close the last window. Linux Desktops and Windows both do this, macOS does not. On Linux' Firefox, this does not seem to be the case. I just confirmed by closing a window with a few dozen tabs, and my other windows were perfectly fine. Same goes for VS Code, IDEA, Ghidra, Tilix, etc. This might be Wayland-specific behavior, but closing one window does not appear to ta…

When you close all open firefox windows is firefox still running? On MacOS it is. On windows and Linux it isn't. It has nothing to do with "other apps"

How can you make it behave like Linux and Windows? I don't want my applications to persist when their visual presence is gone, it's disingenuous to the user.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#318

Post by SllX »

WhyNotHugo wrote: post #275
hiccuphippo wrote: post #256

Does MacOS really have that finesse they try to emulate? First thing I noticed when I started using a mac is that double clicking the Finder titlebar only expands it vertically while every other app expands both vertically and horizontally. Second thing, when I close a window and then press Cmd+tab, the icon is still there, and if I select it nothing shows up. There's more of these everyday things that work sloppy so…

Double click on the titlebar on MacOS means "expand as much as possible to fit all content". Not "maximise". Of course, I'd argue that maximise is the intuitive thing to expect, but the behaviour is not strictly broken, just... odd.

Strictly speaking it’s just different.

The behavior is inherited from the classic Mac OS which initially predates and was developed contemporaneously with Windows. Apple assigned one behavior and Microsoft assigned another. To the extent that one is “more intuitive” it’s because your expectations as to what should happen is different, and “maximize” is a lot easier to behaviorally define, describe and program than “zoom” so GUI programmers preferred it, or knew it better because the behavior and conventions they mimicked in X window managers were taken from what Microsoft was doing at the time.

When screen resolutions are 640x480 or 800x600 or even 1024x768, maybe you just want maximize all the time; but maximize is an anti-feature to me on anything bigger.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#319

Post by kiicia »

graphenus wrote: post #314
numbers wrote: post #313

Can it get the font rendering to the level that macOS or iOS have? If yes, then it's getting there. The few things that scream to me that I'm not using a mac: 1. Antialiasing of fonts, how crisp and clear does it look on my screen? Windows has struggled with this especially after ClearType. 2. Alignment of elements in various applications. The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find…

1. Doesn't macOS turn off font antialiasing for retina displays? I believe retina displays (with desktop scaling) is the real solution to crispy fonts.

apple was using grayscale shape-acxurate smoothing, it works on any display with any arrangement of subpixels

windows clear type is using pixel-accurate subpixel smoothing, it works only in one direction with correct subpixel pattern

what people (including me) dislike about windows fonts is aggressive hinting, that is snapping font shape to pixel grid, it made sense in displays around VGA (640x480) but does not make sense on FHD screen

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#320

Post by ayushnix »

numbers wrote: post #313

Can it get the font rendering to the level that macOS or iOS have? If yes, then it's getting there. The few things that scream to me that I'm not using a mac: 1. Antialiasing of fonts, how crisp and clear does it look on my screen? Windows has struggled with this especially after ClearType. 2. Alignment of elements in various applications. The traffic light window controls look way too far into the app's header. Find…

It's basically impossible to have crisp fonts without a high DPI integer scaled monitor. The target monitor hardware for Windows and MacOS is vastly different.
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