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RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

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Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#271

Post by eyelidlessness »

alana314 wrote: post #57
eyelidlessness wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cmd+` to switch windows within an app. For those more familiar with Windows and probably most Linux conventions, Home/End won’t behave how you want but they move to the start/end of a scrollable view (which IMO is more useful). In most any app ^a will be your Home equivalent and ^e will be your End equivalent. If that sounds weird or weirdly familiar… a subset of emacs key bindings are built in for basically all nati…

Woah, I love this thread. I didn't know about the tab or preference shortcuts. And I used ^A and ^E in terminal but didn't know it worked in other apps. Are these all documented somewhere?

Besides the documentation linked by sibling comment, I believe you can also still customize them per user in ~/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict, and reference the system defaults in /System/Library/KeyBindings/DefaultKeyBinding.dict.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#272

Post by Sunspark »

This is a very cool project and I wish them success.

From a technical standpoint, maybe it won't matter, but I am concerned about the fact that they're using (at this time) a Wayland compositor. I have read that Wayland has some problematic technical design decisions (which were not known when it was conceived) and now today we have the awful situation where most apps in my experience run better in X.org and some are ok in Wayland. From an eyestrain perspective, I find x.org less straining to look at than Wayland. This may have something to do with the drivers but the compositor plays a role for sure. I don't use Wayland by choice. Name a widely used app? Sure, Firefox web browser. Turn on "Use autoscrolling" in the preferences and see how it is. On X.org it is smooth, on Wayland it uses XWayland instead and is not smooth. Both projects are years old. Every single X11 app requires programmers to re-write/convert them to native Wayland. It should have just broken compatibility from day 1 and started from scratch.

BSD DRI drivers are copied over from Linux, just older versions of them, so I don't have a lot of hope that there will be new drivers or a new compositor (likely years away).

Apple, while Darwin is a direct descendant of FreeBSD, Apple is not using Linux DRI drivers, they have enough NDA access that they have their own closed drivers, and instead of using X11, they made their own GUI stack.

I want to say what should be done is to do what Apple did, make a brand new gui stack on top, but that's incredibly difficult with limited resources. With Apple or MS you have endless amounts of money and developers, with X.org & Wayland you have years and years of incremental development. It's tough.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#273

Post by mwint »

eddieroger wrote: post #252
Naracion wrote: post #237

Ex graphic designer here, but don't (and never have) used Mac. I highly respect this project and initiative, and the following is more a commentary on my own reaction than your product. I read the title--finesse of MacOS. I open the link, and the first thing I see at the top is the circular raven logo vertically misaligned with the header on mobile. That made me think, okay let's try desktop version instead, so I swi…

> why do people / projects/teams (in general--not just this product) try to emulate the "finesse" of Apple products Because people like them. Why do all sedans look kind of alike? Why are there dozens knock-off chairs that emulate the Aeron? Some people, myself included, really like the look and feel of macOS, but may want to run *nix instead. Enough of those people got together and made an OS.

Sedans mostly look alike because of safety regulations. There’s only one basic shape that can meet all the regs and is plausible to manufacture.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#274

Post by WhyNotHugo »

Sunspark wrote: post #272

This is a very cool project and I wish them success. From a technical standpoint, maybe it won't matter, but I am concerned about the fact that they're using (at this time) a Wayland compositor. I have read that Wayland has some problematic technical design decisions (which were not known when it was conceived) and now today we have the awful situation where most apps in my experience run better in X.org and some are…

Wayland doesn't have broken technical decisions, they're just different and require applications to adapt.

A typical examples is global hotkeys. On X11, any application can monitor all keystrokes at any time. On Wayland, applications only get keyboard events if they're in foreground. Global hotkeys must be done via a separate compositor API. This breaks applications which expect to be able to detect keystrokes when they're in background, but the "feature" they relied on also allows any random application to include a keylogger. Such applications need to update.

You mention Firefox uses XWayland. Firefox also has native Wayland support (I'm writing on it right now!). This is likely a mis-configuration at some level, or maybe the Firefox version is too old.

OTOH, things like scaling are completely broken on X11, and while the hacks around it improve over the years using a HiDPI display will likely never be as smooth as on Wayland. And if you have a laptop with a HiDPI display and a LowDPI external monitor, one of them is going to suck forever on Xorg.

We are, of course, on a transitional period. A lot of applications still need refinement. Qt in particular still has lots of bugs on Wayland. But these can be fixed, there's no broken design decision which makes them unfixable.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#275

Post by WhyNotHugo »

hiccuphippo wrote: post #256

Does MacOS really have that finesse they try to emulate? First thing I noticed when I started using a mac is that double clicking the Finder titlebar only expands it vertically while every other app expands both vertically and horizontally. Second thing, when I close a window and then press Cmd+tab, the icon is still there, and if I select it nothing shows up. There's more of these everyday things that work sloppy so…

Double click on the titlebar on MacOS means "expand as much as possible to fit all content". Not "maximise".

Of course, I'd argue that maximise is the intuitive thing to expect, but the behaviour is not strictly broken, just... odd.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#277

Post by LeSaucy »

rattray wrote: post #205

I really hope they build some kind of application registry, including listing projects that don't yet work on RavynOS, so that the community can see which packages are most in-demand, what % of apps that people want are supported, reviews from others on stability for the platform, etc. Could bootstrap this by looking at everything in Homebrew (including casks) and sharing whether it seems to work on RavynOS yet (or w…

The biggest gap from developers will be the lack of docker on freebsd.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#279

Post by sleepybrett »

nusaru wrote: post #268
brimstedt wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't notice the misaligned logo until you pointed it out (but I'm a guy who prefers 'ugly things that work ' rather than 'unusable junk that looks good') What I did notice though was th first screenshot with the red, yellow, green buttons of osx window titles. I think this is a really bad design, and I don't understand how people can like this. Sure, nice round "buttons", but very unclear what their purpose is. I…

> I've used Mac for years, and still don't know what the yellow button does. Minimize. That’s what the yellow button does. It’s as simple as clicking it once.

or, mousing over it and seeing the little minimize line.

Re: RavynOS – Finesse of macOS, freedom of FreeBSD

#280

Post by sleepybrett »

LeSaucy wrote: post #277
rattray wrote: post #205

I really hope they build some kind of application registry, including listing projects that don't yet work on RavynOS, so that the community can see which packages are most in-demand, what % of apps that people want are supported, reviews from others on stability for the platform, etc. Could bootstrap this by looking at everything in Homebrew (including casks) and sharing whether it seems to work on RavynOS yet (or w…

The biggest gap from developers will be the lack of docker on freebsd.

You could do what docker does on the mac, put it in a linux vm.
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