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Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

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Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#181

Post by _8j50 »

lostgame wrote: post #96
_8j50 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a different kind of racism though. Every single country has racist people and they are hardly ever a minority. However, being looked down upon or discriminated against is one thing. Having to fear for your life and safety because they will hurt you just because of what you look like biologically is a different issue. Take the infamous Japan for example, if you live there long enough as any non-white minority yo…

This is an important comment. The USA is certainly the most racist first world country I’ve been to. (I’ve visited Canada, England, Denmark, USA) The incarceration statistics for African Americans vs. white people alone tell you all you need to know.

You have to also keep in mind, "minorities" in the US are americans and have been for as long as the majority. Pick any country where racism is considered a problem and you will see minorities are immigrants or recent children of them. In other words, those countries are resisting outsiders but Americans (and Canada, australia,etc...) are hating their own. The GP post itself is a way to try amd sweep it under the rug.

Unfortunately intellectually lazy people gravitate to a binary racist vs not-racist analysis. Nuanced comparisons and suggestions mean looking under the rug where all the problems have been swept under.

Minorities in the US do have more opportunities but also effects of historical and systemic racism as well as white flight and other things specific to the US and other hetrogenous countries means minorities also live in 3rd world like conditions in some places.

A minority might get beat up and mistreated a lot in russia but slavery my means of false incarceration would be rare.

And believe it or not from Japan to Russia to Scandanavia there are a lot of nice,kind and hospitable people.

What comes as a shock to american minorities is how their race isn't even relevant unless the other person is also an asshole racist. Treating people differently because of race is too much work if you didn't grow up thinking that way unless it is a serious thing like marriage or a job (as opposed to serving a person at a restaurant).

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#182

Post by starkd »

pixl97 wrote: post #171
starkd wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When is the last time a racial lynching happened that was not prosecuted or was utterly ignored by the local authorities? I don't deny such attitudes. But I would be suprised if such attitudes extended to a complete abnegation of local authority to prosecute a lynching. Even in a sundown town.

Let's turn around and say "When was the last 'lynching' that WAS the authorities?" If George Floyd's murder had not been filmed Derek Chauvin would still be on the police force and not in prison. This is why you should watch the video attached in my previous reply. Especially in the south the local authorities were actively involved in gathering slaves (remember prison slavery is legal to this day in the US).

First, Derek Chauvin was prosecuted, and not just because there was video evidence. Every time a black person gets shot by the police (even when it is justified) we still know about it. There have been other such situations that were investigated. They are not ignored.

Second, George Floyd was not "lynched". It's even debateable if there were even racial motivations to the case. He ultimately died of a fentanyl overdose, and there is video evidence he was out of control at the time. Not to excuse Chauvin, but I'm not going to try to read his mind or judge his character on the basis that "he looks like a white supremicist" sitting in court.

Saying cases exist but we simply don't know about it, is dodging the question. You can't prove a negative. That's just being disingenuous. Where is the proof that lynchings are occuring but they are just being swept under the rug?

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#183

Post by mping »

bhupy wrote: post #52
lettergram wrote: post #30

Every time I hear “America is racist” I remind people the world is far more racist - see story above. This is common practice everywhere. Europe, Asia, etc. they discriminate for different reasons and in different ways, but they all do it and it’s almost always overt. That’s the culture in the region, imo it’s not “wrong”. People self-select and who am I to discriminate against their culture? They do it for their rea…

Yup, minority here, and I wouldn't feel comfortable living anywhere except the US, Canada, the UK, and maybe ANZ. The Anglo-world in general is far more welcoming to people of color than anywhere else. I'm sure I could be comfortable wherever I am in the world, but it would be extremely difficult for me to thrive and see myself in a position of leadership (either in the private sector or the government) anywhere outs…

I'm glad for you, but that quote is a huge simplification of a nuanced theme. Maybe it's hard for a completely different ethnicity to become parisienne, but I'm sure France is a big country. Maybe it applies to Japan, but not to Spain. Etc.

I have been to America and it feels lots of different countries living in the same place, not necessarily a good thing. Again it's a subject full of nuances, but I have seen different people being completely integrated after just a single generation. What I think is relevant is how much a culture is exposed and capable of absorb different people from different cultures.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#184

Post by em-bee »

DiggyJohnson wrote: post #138
em-bee wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for one the fact that most americans are aware of the existence of racism and openly debate it. whereas european rasism is hidden, and many people are unaware that it even exists because they don't see it. in germany, racism is considered a feature of the extreme right, ignoring that general xenophobia is more widespread than that. european racism is also more xenophobia than about race, which is exemplified by the d…

I’m sorry, but having a discussion about racism isn’t really an example of overt racism. What is this discourse based on in the modern experience of being a minority American?

you are right. i didn't really answer your question. i mean to say that racism in the US is more open in the sense that more people recognize discrimination as such. it is also more systemic. as you can see it happening in institutions. in europe there is a lack of awareness and it's mostly individuals unaware that their behavior is xenophobic or racist.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#185

Post by anuraaga »

orbital-decay wrote: post #47
franciscop wrote: post #20

This is one of the few instances that I've seen open discrimination agains white western people in Japan. In my journey for renting a place, after a couple of visits and getting a "no because he's a gaikokujin (foreigner)" I asked the agent to disclose it firstly. He did, but tactfully: he is a foreigner who is learning Japanese and came to the university in Japan and is hired by traditional company X and blabla. Sti…

Might it be because of the additional legal requirements for a landlord in case of foreign tenants? Or it's really because they don't like non-Japanese?

There are no additional legal requirements to having foreign tenants.

That being said, there are strong legal requirements to having any tenants. Japan is very renter-friendly, and you can even be months late on paying rent without any chance of eviction. So lenders lean towards avoiding any risk at all. It can be harder to find a place as a foreigner due to risk-adversity, but while most comments here want to paint it as racism, my guess is few of the posters actually speak Japanese - I suspect it would be difficult finding a place in any country when not speaking of their language, though have no actual experience to base that on. But as a brown (other comments have suggested we suffer more discrimination, which is true in the eyes of cops and general people assuming we are all poor restaurant owners) that speaks Japanese, real estate had never been difficult, though there is additional cost for a guarantor which would otherwise be a family member.

But the thread is about Singapore where presumably there is no languages issue so not sure where Japan came from. I suppose it's tradition though for expats here to vent though ;)

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#186

Post by tpoacher »

starkd wrote: post #143
foobarbecue wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't overt racists so much as subtle, persistent bias, which absolutely holds people back in very significant ways. See my comment about my grandmother. And... unless you're in a marginalized minority group, you really aren't in a position to know how racist people are. Oh yeah, I just remembered, we also recently had a president for four years who was overly racist. Remember his attacks on Judge Curiel?…

Not true. Any body can understand it. It's a basic human empathy characteristic. Telling people they are not in a position to know anything about it, is merely an attempt at thought control by disregarding their opinions. It's not really a discussion.

Indeed. This is the fallacy of special pleading: https://www2.palomar.edu/users/bthompson/Special%20Pleading....

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#187

Post by bhupy »

rayiner wrote: post #165
bhupy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, minority here, and I wouldn't feel comfortable living anywhere except the US, Canada, the UK, and maybe ANZ. The Anglo-world in general is far more welcoming to people of color than anywhere else. I'm sure I could be comfortable wherever I am in the world, but it would be extremely difficult for me to thrive and see myself in a position of leadership (either in the private sector or the government) anywhere outs…

The Reagan quote is great. I was talking with my dad about this the other day. He pointed out that he’s been called “bideshi” (the Bangla word for foreigner) while traveling in a different village in Bangladesh than the one his family is from.

Yup, I'm from India, and I'm now considered "firaang" (foreigner) — even my own people won't fully accept me! "ABCD" is an acceptable pejorative, because the culture is by and for the people that were born and raised in India, and they won't have it any other way.

In America, as long as you're a hard worker, believe in America's institutions, and are civically engaged, it doesn't matter where you're from, you will eventually be accepted as "American", and if anyone were to suggest otherwise, they'd likely get ostracized by most (if not all) institutions that hold power/influence.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#188

Post by alphabettsy »

starkd wrote: post #164
spywaregorilla wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well allow me to throw my two anecotes into the ring. My grandfather is an asian immigrant who dreamed of coming to the US, which he did late in life. He died in a hospital angrily denying help from black staff members. My grandmother is a sweet old italian lady. She got real mad when one of her grandkids started dating a black guy. She doesn't believe in mixed race couples / people. I'm mixed race but of course I'm…

My main concern is that people are not held back because of it. At some point, everyone needs to develop an innate resiliance (a thick skin) in how they deal with negativity. I think that, in the U.S. at least, there is a greater danger of a social thought-police where people feel like they can't say what they think. When my grandmother was dying in a hospital, she had some dementia. I don't think she ever uttered a…

> greater danger of social thought-police

People are concerned about existing as they were born as well. I think those people are less concerned about whether or not your grandma can be honest about her feelings towards black people.

> I don’t think she uttered a racial epithet to anyone in her whole life

I’ll start by saying this is an assumption and likely untrue.

As previously stated, lots of people who are racist are never overtly racist.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#189

Post by alphabettsy »

starkd wrote: post #182
pixl97 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's turn around and say "When was the last 'lynching' that WAS the authorities?" If George Floyd's murder had not been filmed Derek Chauvin would still be on the police force and not in prison. This is why you should watch the video attached in my previous reply. Especially in the south the local authorities were actively involved in gathering slaves (remember prison slavery is legal to this day in the US).

First, Derek Chauvin was prosecuted, and not just because there was video evidence. Every time a black person gets shot by the police (even when it is justified) we still know about it. There have been other such situations that were investigated. They are not ignored. Second, George Floyd was not "lynched". It's even debateable if there were even racial motivations to the case. He ultimately died of a fentanyl overd…

> He ultimately died of a fentanyl overdose, and there is video evidence he was out of control at the time.

Neither of these things are true.

Re: Sorry, your wife is Indian, landlord won’t rent to you

#190

Post by rascul »

starkd wrote: post #182
pixl97 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's turn around and say "When was the last 'lynching' that WAS the authorities?" If George Floyd's murder had not been filmed Derek Chauvin would still be on the police force and not in prison. This is why you should watch the video attached in my previous reply. Especially in the south the local authorities were actively involved in gathering slaves (remember prison slavery is legal to this day in the US).

First, Derek Chauvin was prosecuted, and not just because there was video evidence. Every time a black person gets shot by the police (even when it is justified) we still know about it. There have been other such situations that were investigated. They are not ignored. Second, George Floyd was not "lynched". It's even debateable if there were even racial motivations to the case. He ultimately died of a fentanyl overd…

> He ultimately died of a fentanyl overdose

No, two autopsys and a jury determined that he died from a knee on his neck.

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