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Teaching Good Sex

nytimes.com

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Re: Teaching Good Sex

#71

Post by scelerat »

winter_blue wrote: post #20

For those if you who have never had sex, how does this (seeing this article) make you feel? Please be honest. - I feel a combination of envy and hatred (but I wish I didn't feel like this.)

I still feel a twinge of envy many years later -- I'm twice as old as some of these kids and at this point have had plenty of experience.

An absolute no-sex-before-marriage upbringing led me to completely bind up and lock away a lot of urges I had as a teenager, to the point that I didn't really want to explore sexual feelings and experiences with someone: I knew what I wanted and just didn't want to deal with the impossibility of it all. I didn't really date or pursue anyone for this reason, to the chagrin of people who were attracted to me (and to whom I was secretly attracted, too).

I don't think that's a great way to feel, and yah I still feel envy when I hear from friends about their early experiences, especially when they are free of hangups and all about two people learning about each other and having fun.

Since I have no idea why you haven't had sex -- you sound like you want it -- I can't offer any advice other than this: Be honest with yourself, comfortable with yourself, and make friends and acquaintances. Be genuinely interested in those people, their lives, needs, and desires. Be open about yours. Have real-world relationships, participate in real-world activities. You're not going to get any by sitting at home alone stewing.

"Sex is natural, sex is good; not everybody does it, but everybody should," cheezy but true words by George Michael.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#72

Post by Goladus »

philbarr wrote: post #33

What's this: "If there’s grass on the field, play ball" ?! I think you'll find the actual phrase is, "if there's grass on the wicket, let's play Cricket." The American-ized version doesn't even rhyme!

"Play ball" is a popular baseball phrase, commonly shouted by the umpire after performance of the National Anthem. In fact I would say the American-ized version is less clumsy and more poetic.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#73

Post by Shenglong »

araneae wrote: post #13
Shenglong wrote: post #7

I recently (well, a few years ago) went through sex education in schools. They don't really teach you sex, as much as why you shouldn't have sex. Even when they're teaching contraception, the consistent emphasis on only x% effective really cuts out student interest. It's almost like saying, "yeah we have a method or preventing HIV transmission, but it doesn't really work." While it might seem like a good idea at firs…

Was she having sex with you? She might be disclosing it to her partners, just not every random guys she knows, understandably.

No, not me. I'm being a friend.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#74

Post by akmiller »

smokinn wrote: post #34
Shenglong wrote: post #7

I recently (well, a few years ago) went through sex education in schools. They don't really teach you sex, as much as why you shouldn't have sex. Even when they're teaching contraception, the consistent emphasis on only x% effective really cuts out student interest. It's almost like saying, "yeah we have a method or preventing HIV transmission, but it doesn't really work." While it might seem like a good idea at firs…

I wish it were this simple. The school gives this guy a great amount of latitude and it's great that they do because he's truly knowledgeable, does a lot of research and helps his students a lot. But, for every one of him, there are many others that, given the same latitude, will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repre…

But, for every one of him, there are many others that, given the same latitude, will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repressive it may be, is the way to go.

Couldn't you replace "sexual life" with almost any other subject though? It's the same with all subjects that there are good and bad teachers and each one, the good and the bad, are going to influence their students.

Once we get into that discussion it's more about being able to find and retain the good teachers and being able to remove the inadequate one's which, I grant you, in the United States is definitely very hard to do.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#75

Post by akmiller »

alttag wrote: post #53
smokinn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it were this simple. The school gives this guy a great amount of latitude and it's great that they do because he's truly knowledgeable, does a lot of research and helps his students a lot. But, for every one of him, there are many others that, given the same latitude, will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repre…

> "will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repressive it may be, is the way to go" And he's not? Or is it that you agree with his moral stance that you see it that way? This particular instructor is an advocate for his standards, whether he intends to or not. He's gay, and according to the article approves of pretty muc…

I don't really see what specific stances he's taking in the article. The thing he seems to do and do well (from reading the article) is have open conversations about everything and let the kids have open dialogue in a controlled fashion.

He indicated that he may not have issues with 17 year olds having a healthy active sexual life but he wasn't preaching that they definitely should be.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#76

Post by alttag »

akmiller wrote: post #75
alttag wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "will instead foist their pre-conceived ideas on students and insist that their view of sexual life, however either perverted or abnormally repressive it may be, is the way to go" And he's not? Or is it that you agree with his moral stance that you see it that way? This particular instructor is an advocate for his standards, whether he intends to or not. He's gay, and according to the article approves of pretty muc…

I don't really see what specific stances he's taking in the article. The thing he seems to do and do well (from reading the article) is have open conversations about everything and let the kids have open dialogue in a controlled fashion. He indicated that he may not have issues with 17 year olds having a healthy active sexual life but he wasn't preaching that they definitely should be.

Yes ... part of my point is our collective social morality is formed by whether (and which ones and how many) people agree with a particular philosophy. It's reflected in research on the stages of moral development (see, e.g., Kohlberg).

One can't help but advocate for things they believe in by the way they live their life. (As a corollary, trying to have independent journalists is an impossible ideal; compare NY Times and Washington Post.) Trying to suggest he's not advocating his view of morality is silly, just as someone suggesting I don't advocate for mine would be, even should I attempt to be even-handed.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#77

Post by akmiller »

gaelian wrote: post #22
Shenglong wrote: post #7

I recently (well, a few years ago) went through sex education in schools. They don't really teach you sex, as much as why you shouldn't have sex. Even when they're teaching contraception, the consistent emphasis on only x% effective really cuts out student interest. It's almost like saying, "yeah we have a method or preventing HIV transmission, but it doesn't really work." While it might seem like a good idea at firs…

I find myself somewhat agreeing with the general sentiment of your final paragraph. But "I think it's about time we standardized it" is really rubbing me the wrong way (honestly, not pun initially intended). Either you don't mean that how it sounds or you are massively underestimating the variety of sexual activities that humans engage in and enjoy. Just with the examples you give (common erogenous zones, sensing fee…

I think it's less about pure education and more about a safe, controlled environment to have open and honest communication.

As you suggest it's a very complex subject with many questions having no generally applicable answers. However, being able to discuss such things between the sexes and with some mature guidance can remove a lot of humility and hopefully provide at least a little enlightenment.

That being said, I'm not entirely sure where this discussion should take place (i.e. is school the right place, I don't know).

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#78

Post by m-photonic »

davidhansen wrote: post #47
winter_blue wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

towards those getting laid.. I know it's stupid, but I think in the past part of it arose from just knowing that they were doing it, and I as a geek was not going to get it. I strongly thought in the past that because I was nerdy, I was automatically despised by girls. I know that's not completely true now, but there is a little bit of truth to it. But to reiterate, I think what gave me this feeling, was thinking tha…

I don't know how old you are, but be prepared to battle this for much of your life. At 32, I would have hoped to excise the latent misogyny and distrust of former jocks that my adolescent experiences burned into me, but it has not abated. I expect this to last a lifetime, and my only defense is to continue working on discarding cached thoughts( per the LessWrong folks )whenever they are recognized. The real kicker is…

>My own cynicism grew enormously after witnessing the dramatic change that money brought into women's attitude toward me.

This isn't necessarily because these women are after your money, though I'm sure that's true for some of them. The other factor is that your success in business is evidence of your innate qualities, which makes women more attracted to you.

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#79

Post by winter_blue »

om01 wrote: post #32
winter_blue wrote: post #20

For those if you who have never had sex, how does this (seeing this article) make you feel? Please be honest. - I feel a combination of envy and hatred (but I wish I didn't feel like this.)

What age range are you in? I'm in my mid twenties and feel exactly the same.

I'm in my early twenties.

It's not a good feeling to have. Don't let it bother you. Nothing good ever comes out of it.

It automatically made me dislike people who've had sex; and until a couple of years, every single friend I had (in college) was a virgin. (I just wouldn't get close to a non-virgin, because of the feeling of hatred his/her's non-virginity brought.)

In any case, I would say try to get rid of the feeling as much as possible. At the same time - even though it may be hard; try to genuinely care about others and love others. Try to follow this advice: "Be genuinely interested in those people, their lives, needs, and desires. Be open about yours. Have real-world relationships, participate in real-world activities."

You'll be happier person not having these feelings and having true relationships with others.

True happiness comes from love & friendship (not just romantic love.) Having real friendships and being able to serve others and make others happy is what makes men truly happy.

And accept people for who they are; even if they have had stuff you haven't had. (On the same note, accept people who are not as "good" as you - perhaps in areas of skill, like coding, math, etc.)

Re: Teaching Good Sex

#80

Post by gaelian »

akmiller wrote: post #77
gaelian wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find myself somewhat agreeing with the general sentiment of your final paragraph. But "I think it's about time we standardized it" is really rubbing me the wrong way (honestly, not pun initially intended). Either you don't mean that how it sounds or you are massively underestimating the variety of sexual activities that humans engage in and enjoy. Just with the examples you give (common erogenous zones, sensing fee…

I think it's less about pure education and more about a safe, controlled environment to have open and honest communication. As you suggest it's a very complex subject with many questions having no generally applicable answers. However, being able to discuss such things between the sexes and with some mature guidance can remove a lot of humility and hopefully provide at least a little enlightenment. That being said, I…

Very much agreed. But I also think we're looking at the problem in a somewhat more isolated context than would be required to effect true improvement. By which I mean, if we are to achieve a safe, controlled environment to have open and honest communication about sex that includes some mature guidance, then a more systemic change in English speaking society as a whole is required. So rather than changes being effected at school, or at home, or somewhere else, I would suggest that change is needed at school and at home and in a wider sense across society.

Looking to existing attitudes and models in Europe might be a good starting point. Because what they do (especially the Scandinavians) works a hell of a lot better than what we do ("we" being English speaking people in general terms).

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