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You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

cdahmedeh.net

41–50 of 273 posts

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#41

Seems a little entitled to me. Why should artists be able to spend their time doing exactly what they want while all the boring plebs have to pick vegetables/write CRUD apps? Sounds like someone is upset that more people dont find utility in their work

Because artists make the world an objectively better place in an uncommonly powerful way.

Because it's an excellent investment, socially speaking.

Because investment in the arts (I mean serious investment. Not like USA) has worked pretty well for some countries.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#42
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich patrons mostly.

I feel like the patron system of old ended up turning into the modern professional sports system instead of supporting the arts. Which sort of shows the shift in priorities at least the rich have had in more recent years.

Eh I don't know, I think to an extent Patreon which is explicitly this model has helped allow anyone to patronize artists they support.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich patrons mostly.

They were also something that most modern artists and writers are not: good.

In 100-300 years people will probably only know the names of the "good" modern writers and artists too.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#45
post #4

I saw a great commentary from an art gallery owner on Tiktok about the "inherent value" of art. The inherent value of art is zero. That is, the art itself has no inherent value. The actual value of a piece of art is whatever you can convince someone to pay for it. One thing that can help is having receipts of what you've sold an artists work for in the past, since you can use that to inflate that amount a current pie…

Not terribly insightful. You could say the same for dog haircuts.

[deleted]

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#46
post #24
post #21

Who paid for the great works of music in the period between 1700 and 1918? From such musicians as Liszt, Beethoven, Mozart, Bartok, Handel, Debussy, Bach etc... there were a heck of a lot of great composers in that period. I was analyzing Bach the other day. His Brandenburg Concerto #2 has tens of thousands of notes. That is a heck of a lot of work.

Rich patrons mostly.

Also, the church(es) which employed many of them.

On top of that, music was not a commodity back then. Live performances literally made a living for many of them as these performances were the only source of music. (And a church needs this music for every mass, for instance.)

Now music is abundant, recordings are cheap / free, and the best performance is easily available in a recorded form. Live performances are still a thing and still feed many of the music creators. Royalties, too. But you better be a superstar for that to bring enough. (Liszt and Mozart were superstars, in a sense.)

Wait until a Dall-E equivalent for music emerges though.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#47
Art is a service industry. I'm into electronic music and it's interesting to think about the youtuber's I watch, who very likely make most of their money from not music. I think we as a society should aspire to art that pushes conventions or makes us uncomfortable, but it also seems somewhat anti-human to think that people shouldn't pay for what they like. "Art that appeals to the lowest common denominator is popular" is just a practical, self-evident statement. Sometimes I think trying to get away from this and idealizing that it should be the best art and not the best marketed art that should be popular is arrogant. I think this is why a lot of artists end up moving to big cities, sure, to find opportunity, but also to find a community of people you can share your art.

I think there is this perception that some people - Ed Sheerhan or Skrillex just get to be uniquely themselves, and maybe they do. This is kinda the thing about living in a big complex capitalist system. I think we can all see that as consumers of art that our limited reach and sharp opinions are one of the beautiful things about being human, but it's hard to see it from the other side.

I don't know if it's sad or hopeful or human. I certainly wish I could quit my job and make music for a living. I don't really know what the answer is, but at the same time, I think it's like the if you build it they will come thinking that comes with building a startup.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#48
post #26

~ A take ~ "Quality" is what we say when what succeeds is not what we think should succeed. There's an actual objective function that defines success: that's fitness. Quality is what we call the difference between that one and the one we'd like. Expecting everything to rearrange itself to use our function is a high-"quality", low-fitness strategy.

I don't think that's how I use the word "quality." Yes, it is not synonymous with popularity. But no, I don't think there's something wrong with the world that people prefer a certain thing that is "lower" quality.

Is champagne higher-quality than coca-cola? Of course it is, but no serious person argues that the world ought to prefer champagne to coke. Quality is a combination of a bundle of--cough--qualities, not all of which are accessible to everyone, nor are they necessarily desirable to everyone.

One example of the accessibility aspect is that many mediums have a natural progression. The music educator Jerry Coker provides a simple model: He wrote that the enjoyment of music requires--amongst other things--a balance between familiarity and novelty.

In his model, when we listen to music our brain is constantly "playing along," basically predicting what the next note or whatever will be. When it's always right, we can grow bored of it because it lacks novelty. When it's always wrong, we grow frustrated with it because it lacks familiarity. Somewhere in between is the right combination of "yes, I know this, but whoa, that was cool!"

This model explains one kind of progression: We begin in a new genre with things that are relatively simple to digest and which are repetitive. As we gain familiarity with simple and repetitive music, we seek out more complex music that has provides a little more novelty, such as unusual chord voicings or progressions.

Of course, we eventually grow overly familiar with that, so we seek out even more novelty, and at some point, we find ourselves enjoying music that our friends who haven't taken our journey find repellantly random.

Is that music of higher quality? Yes? It's something that people with more experience with music prefer, which is one way to define "quality."

Is there something wrong with the simpler music that is more accessible to those who haven't taken the same journey? No.

Is there something wrong with the universe that most people do not enjoy the "higher quality" music? Also no.

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#49
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich patrons mostly.

I feel like the patron system of old ended up turning into the modern professional sports system instead of supporting the arts. Which sort of shows the shift in priorities at least the rich have had in more recent years.

Except it's really local governments bankrolling the stadiums and upgrades. And then ticket and merchandise sales are mostly the fan base, not some patronage class. Maybe sponsorships are closest to patronage but those are still more of business transactions. It's all just business, and the wealthy aren't donating anything (unlike arts patronage).

Re: You can't afford to be an artist and/or author, let alone be respected

#50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich patrons mostly.

They were also something that most modern artists and writers are not: good.

I am quite sure there were a lot of bad contemporaries, but they never ended up in the history books.

One of the new genres that really impresses me, is 3D art. The art form is getting quite mature, and often requires as much work as any Dutch Master oil painting.

One of my favorite 3D renderings, is Worth Enough, by radoxist[0]. Nowadays, I'm sure that there are works that beat it, but it was quite amazing, when he posted it.

[0] https://www.deviantart.com/radoxist/art/Worth-enough-7324787...

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