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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

indiatoday.in

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#331

Post by pm90 »

This is a good first step.

Anti racism/casteism is a cat and mouse game though. The only thing Im certain of is the rabid caste discriminators will develop some sort of coded language to keep discriminating without being caught.

My point is that we can never call this process done. Unfortunately the situation will evolve and so will our strategies to deal with it.

Ultimately we must uphold our commitment to liberal principles (I mean liberal in the sense of classical, not American liberalism). The rights of individuals must be protected.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#332

Post by WalterBright »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #205
PaulHoule wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cisco is famous for being sued for all sides. They let go of middle-aged white people (who sue) and then hire young Indians they can underpay (who also sue.)

I mean I'm kinda glad they sue instead of roll over and take the pay. International hiring at lower pay is a capitalist strategy you see everywhere. I watched a Business Insider video a while ago about (of all things) mushroom farmers somewhere in the US. They bluntly admitted they lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of crop because they couldn't find staff. They couldn't find staff because they only hired south-…

> under capitalism, employers don't want to pay their staff.

I see. And under which system do people want to pay for things?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#333

Post by Zvez »

ab_testing wrote: post #245

I think this is a reason why Leetcode style interviews are popular. They remove at least one type of bias of race - the ability to solve coding problems. If you can solve Online Assessment, Phone Assessment and Onsites, you keep moving on to the next round, regardless of your race or ethnicity. It is a way for companies to claim that there is no bias in hiring.

well, no. First companies usually have separate interview for 'cultural fit'. Second, the thing with discriminations, they can be quite hidden. The 'leetcode style tasks' can be performed very differently. If I as interviewer don't like you, I can do a lot to make sure you don't pass it. Starting from making question harder to understand and end with plain 'strong not hire' for vague reasons even if you did well.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#334

Post by aaaaaaaaaaab »

boplicity wrote: post #118
Bilal_io wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone hires a person based on their color, that's wrong regardless of who's doing it. This includes let's say for example an Indian that hires a white person just because they're white.

> If someone hires a person based on their color, that's wrong regardless of who's doing it. Let's say a company is set to hire 1,000 employees. For the first 900 hires, they intentionally exclude white people. Should they, then, make up for this intentional exclusion by then prioritizing white people in their hiring? Or should they correct the problem by giving those who were intentionally excluded priority? In othe…

If I slap you from the left, do I “correct” this by slapping you from the right? Or how about I stop slapping you?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#335

Post by pm90 »

teakettle42 wrote: post #330
pm90 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is some sort of malicious conspiracy or evidence of anti whiteness or whatever. Processes are created for the common case and when there is an uncommon scenario, it is new territory for everyone involved and someone has to be responsible. In most corporate environments, nobody wants to be that person so inaction is generally the norm unless the course of action is straightforward or has precedent.

It’s a blind spot in DEI and intersectionality; the idea that an oppressed class can also be an oppressor class, and that it’s not an attribute of the perpetrator’s class at all, but in fact, situational and individual.

Agreed. In tech especially, certain minority groups (East and South Asians) are over represented so our processes must evolve to deal with the situations that result from them.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#336

Post by rayiner »

tptacek wrote: post #120
rayiner wrote: post #85

Have white progressives kicked high caste Indians (which includes most Indian Americans) out of “people of color?”

Is this an article about white progressivism?

Any such policy at a California company run by white people is either spearheaded by white progressives, or adopted to appease them, and reflects what they consider acceptable versus unacceptable discrimination.

Ordinarily, discrimination by and between minorities is swept under the rug in such circles. So a policy that views Indians as capable of being oppressors is a significant.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#337

Post by draw_down »

duxup wrote: post #189

I worked at a company where this was an issue at one point (granted this was one situation among a lot of employees). A manager was pretty much dismissive of everything anyone of a lower caste did / wouldn't communicate with them effectively. HR absolutely struggled with the issue. The HR folks tasked with dealing with discrimination issues largely had spent their time constructing company wide emails and classes tha…

No post body was provided.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#338

Post by azinman2 »

civilized wrote: post #323
azinman2 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can’t they work together, but force to not discriminate?

Working relationships are complex and require a lot of trust. You can't just wave a magic wand over two people and say "discrimination be gone". The bigot can and will always find ways to harm the victim without accountability.

But we already do this for all other protected classes.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#339

Post by zajio1am »

anoonmoose wrote: post #233
ketanmaheshwari wrote: post #76

This is a good step forward but wait until Apple realizes that Indians discriminate on many other factors including but not limited to skin color, state of origin, region of origin (North vs South vs NorthEast), mother tongue, religion (Hindu vs Muslim), Political beliefs (Left vs Right).

Political belief should not be a protected class. It's an opinion- everything else you listed, you're born with/can't change that classification (don't want to get into the weirdness of the religion part, but nearly all religious preference can be predicted by geography).

Both religion and national identity are changeable, they are 'just opinions', but both are key historical examples of protected class.

You can say that both are predicted by geography, but must conflicts happen in situations where populations of different identities are mixed in one geography. Then you can say it can be predicted by parents' opinions, but that is true for many other opinions, including political ones.

In some sense, protection of changeable characteristics is more important than protections of non-changeable characteristics, because bullying based on changeable characteristics can be effective to pressure conversions of victims.

And it is question how political opinion is just an expression of deep personal characteristics that are not much changeable and perhaps even partially given by genetics.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#340

Post by bendbro »

exhilaration wrote: post #194
bendbro wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

Thanks for the antimisinformative prebunk, friend! I didn't actually read your link, but I felt that YIKES. Scary.
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