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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

indiatoday.in

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#301

Post by snickerbockers »

ummonk wrote: post #13

I have mixed feelings on this. There are of course things that aren't explicitly prohibited by workplace policies but are no doubt unacceptable - e.g. discriminating against left-handed employees. But it's still useful to have explicit policies against caste discrimination to make clear that it's unacceptable. On the other hand, as an Indian in a top tech company we're more likely to experience racism than casteism (…

This is kinda a dumb argument, but if we have to constantly be reminded not to be racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, xenophobic, islamophobic, etc we might as well throw casteist into the mix. I'm actually feeling a little schadenfreude now that there's finally an -ism where i'm not part of the demographic that's the "bad guy".

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#302

Post by FlyingSnake »

tomrod wrote: post #156
FlyingSnake wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> castes based on race and conquering populations initially. No. Varnashram and Jati system were not formed due to any imaginary invasion from the outside, that’s the discarded Raj era AIT speaking.

Oh, the Indus valley was always Indian and never had external population migrations or conquests that left an impact on culture and dynasties analogous to England's Norman conquest of 1066 and earlier Saxon migrations that impacted the culture to the present day, reflected in socioeconomic class distinctions? Man, guess history is completely wrong.[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_India

How is all this diatribe related to the fact that AIT (not AMT) is a discarded theory, and jati vyavastha has nothing to do with imagined external conquests?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#303

Post by zajio1am »

ausbah wrote: post #197
ketanmaheshwari wrote: post #76

This is a good step forward but wait until Apple realizes that Indians discriminate on many other factors including but not limited to skin color, state of origin, region of origin (North vs South vs NorthEast), mother tongue, religion (Hindu vs Muslim), Political beliefs (Left vs Right).

political beliefs aren't a protected class

'protected class' is just legal criterion that varies between jurisdictions. For example, political opinion is protected class in EU.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#304

Post by azinman2 »

civilized wrote: post #282
michaelt wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised some people found it a difficult decision to be honest. I mean, discovering a new form of discrimination, which only Indians can perform? And none of your fellow managers have ever heard of this stuff? And you don't know WTF a caste is? And I doubt the accused is telling HR "yeah, I discriminate on caste, got a problem with that?" - they might instead be saying "some of his behaviour towards me has…

I mean, certainly gather information and follow due process, but once it's clear what occurred, there is no question that a person who refuses to work with coworkers based on lower caste does not belong in any workplace with lower caste workers. And anyone who resists that principle is a co-conspirator in caste-based oppression and should leave as well.

Why can’t they work together, but force to not discriminate?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#305

Post by ummonk »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #151
FlyingSnake wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN can never has a coherent discussion about casteism in modern India OR in NRI populations because they lack the nuance and lived experience required to understand how jati system works. Indians are more likely to be affected by racism than casteism in the west.

> Indians are more likely to be affected by racism than casteism in the west Should we ignore sexism faced by black women because they’re more likely to be racially discriminated against?

No, but we can (and black women do) talk about how concerns about sexism get wielded disproportionately against black men. It's intersectionality 101.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#306

Post by xhevahir »

thorncorona wrote: post #272
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real shame is that living in Delhi, I’ve seen caste come back very strongly in everyday discourse. I’ve been here almost 20 years. This city used to be largely caste agnostic. Now when I meet new people, especially outside the elite tech circles, they will casually mention their upper caste status (“As Brahmins, we don’t do xyz of course!”). Even cars carrying caste stickers are more common.

Do you know why this happened?

This gives some background: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva#Upper_casteism

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#307

Post by oefrha »

thankful69 wrote: post #212
greatpostman wrote: post #12

looks the other way when Indian director has all Indian SDMs reporting to him It’s all lip service. Nepotism is rampant at FAANG

If it is, is kept very secret between Indian employees, most American engineers (at least I would) will raise the issue. I don't care how high the is Director, I would just tell him that he is being racist , at his face, if he gets me fired, I would sue the company in a second. I have never seen this non-sense at FAANG in the 7 years I have worked here (Amazon first, then Google).

It’s not a secret? I recall having a discussion on this with a bunch of SV engineers a decade ago at a potluck and almost everyone observed how Indian managers tend to hire Indians at their respective companies.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#309

Post by bgdam »

adamsmark wrote: post #283

How hard is it to fake being of a higher caste like Brahmin or Kshatriya? Since it’s not skin color but your heritage, can’t you falsify this information? Especially if you claim to be from some rural or remote location? Just how involved would someone try to investigate your background?

For the vast majority of Indians, their last name gives away their caste. If not their last name, their way of speech, their place of birth, what they eat. Caste-ism is so ingrained amongst a lot of Indians, that it is the first thing they try to figure out upon meeting another Indian. It's pretty hard to hide, unless you belong to the small minority of people whose habits and name don't give away their caste.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#310

Post by snickerbockers »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18
ummonk wrote: post #13

I have mixed feelings on this. There are of course things that aren't explicitly prohibited by workplace policies but are no doubt unacceptable - e.g. discriminating against left-handed employees. But it's still useful to have explicit policies against caste discrimination to make clear that it's unacceptable. On the other hand, as an Indian in a top tech company we're more likely to experience racism than casteism (…

> we're more likely to experience racism than casteism (though both are relatively rare) I have seen zero evidence for this. The relative or absolute frequency claims. > this policy is likely to increase racism and result in Indians (and other South Asians) getting singled-out and scrutinized for casteism Strongly disagree. I have Indian heritage. I have no problem with such policy, and am increasingly convinced—in p…

>(It’s almost certainly already law.)

Is it? I suppose this will vary depending on which country we're talking about, but as far as i know there's nothing in the US that makes it illegal to discriminate based on caste unless the determination of caste overlaps with another -ism, like race.

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